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I am sitting on the 4 heading down. At 59th, they really crowd in, humid from the rain. I look up to see who is with me.
There is a man standing over me, gripping the ceiling bar with both hands. He is in his twenties. His eyes are closed. He is wearing a beige sweater with one of those turtleneck collars that comes up around the neck and flares out at the top. Black rimmed glasses, thick eyebrows. I know, somehow, that he hates his reflection today, that he will not see a world that might see him.
He is making these deep rasping sounds, sniffling. At first I think he has a cold, and I wish he wasn’t standing directly over me. But as I study him, I see that his face is turned inward. He is crying—
crying in, toward himself, crying in the most lonely of ways, the way you cry when you are not letting your suffering flow: jerky, swallowed, grasped and withheld. Two thoughts run through my head: his father has died; a lover has rejected him.
He knows no one will see him. Certainly not the 30 something man next to him wearing that olive patchwork scarf, reading an old issue of The New Yorker. I thought maybe the girl next to me with the patched up soccer jersey might have noticed, but I couldn’t catch her eye.
There he is and here am I, staring. I want to reach out to him; I want to touch his hand. I want to give. Have you noticed that it is hard to witness someone's pain? I want to look away. Open your fucking eyes. Look at me. I see you. See me. We are suffering too. Please, I don’t want to sit here, watching your pain, alone. Be with me, for a moment. It doesn’t belong only to you!
what a lonely way to weep.
"the tao that can be told
is not the eternal tao."
the sadness that can be withheld
is not the eternal sadness.
this is what makes this experience so painful for me; this is what it means, to me, that he is not letting his suffering flow, as you say. and flow is the right word for sadness; can't you just feel it like a freshwater stream trinkling down your face? it's refreshing to be sad, and so pure. "what is there," one of my poems goes, "simpler than sadness?"
i once sat on a packed train with my eyes focused on not-focusing. i heard some awkward giggling and glanced up to see a man standing, holding onto the rail, asleep. he was obviously asleep from the way he was standing, from the look on his face... everything. various people were taking him for a spectacle. it made me angry. i wanted to stand up and softly take hold of his arm to see if he wanted to sit down -- there was no room for me to move, he was too far. when we got into the stop the final jerk of the train woke him up, he looked dazed. the people kept pointing and giggling. he fell back asleep. 14th street came and i followed the slow, frustrated line of people out into the station. by the time the train was cleared out he appeared awake again. i remember this because i still feel i ought to have found a way to offer him my seat; and i remember this because the first part of your story feels a lot like mine.
what most strikes me about this poem (and what most impacts the way i view my own experience) is the movement... you start with the word "I" but at the beginning the "I" is just a space from which to experience the crowd... through, we'll begin, this one man. but suddenly there is that sharp turn, that shock: he is crying. we become completely enmeshed in his experience, the pitiful loneliness of it -- an experience quite appropriate for this blog. and once more there is a powerful shift. we move from this man's experience into your very complex final thoughts/commands.
Open your fucking eyes.
there is a print of the painting "Madonna" by Edvard Munch hanging over my bed. i was lucky enough to visit MoMA while the real thing was on display on the sixth floor (I went several times, actually). and when i saw her for the first time my heart nearly stopped beating. i stared intensely, enraptured by her beauty and her stark, daunting (yet swaying) aura. slowly i felt a fear creeping up my spine and making its way into the back of my throat: What if she opens her eyes? What if she sees me here, staring? I peered carefully at her closed lids, searching for any movement, ready to flee as soon as they snapped open to catch me watching her. even now typing this out i can feel the fear, the imagined thrill of her opened eyes... how i would like to be so caught.
but Madonna is not stealing away, like your withdrawn twenty-something. your final words... who are they spoken for? are they expressing your own feelings only? or are you reaching into his feelings, too? are you speaking on behalf of all the blinded fellow passengers on the downtown 4? or is it even beyond that... "I see you. See me." this experience... you take this experience and recognize in it an opportunity to delve down into the heart of the matter (or the heart of some matter).
perhaps my favorite line, though: "At first I think he has a cold, and I wish he wasn't standing directly over me." it's amazing how a little nudge can cause our whole silly mood to collapse and become something new. all conditioned things may be impermanent, but that doesn't make this kind of moment any less painful. especially the conflict... i talk about universals, but who cares about that when there's such troubling and delicious conflict to read and re-read: "I want to touch his hand. I want to give... I want to look away." There are so many feelings in here!!! I am quite grateful that you are sharing this journey you're taking, instead of writing it down in your notebook and leaving it there.
`the "I" is just a space from which to experience the crowd.’
The Song of the Beggar
I am always going from door to door,
whether in rain or heat,
and sometimes I will lay my right ear in
the palm of my right hand.
And as I speak my voice seems strange as if
it were alien to me,
for I'm not certain whose voice is crying:
mine or someone else's.
I cry for a pittance to sustain me.
The poets cry for more.
In the end I conceal my entire face
and cover both my eyes;
there it lies in my hands with all its weight
and looks as if at rest,
so no one may think I had no place where-
upon to lay my head.
--Rilke
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I see
that man on the train. I am that man on the train. How many times, I can't even count, have I walked with my head down, holding back tears, overwhelmed by life, frightened of death? If it is not my own sorrow that fills me, it is yours, because at the moment of your tears my heart joins yours.
IN TO ME SEE(,) EMILY
He wants to be the rider standing on the train
eyes moving rapidly from house to house
unfixed. He is white wind bearing down
pushing nervously fall's
brittle leaves.
The man wants to stretch his wish into need
spread out beyond his reach like the yarn's
dangling thread like the crisp fire
stroking marsh's edge. He wants to dance
around the sea, naked, flailing his arms
like wings like waves
bursting into spray.
He cries in the past for the past for the lies
for the grins, the hawkish eyes staring down
on him, staining the soul of his words
like spit murdering a walk like the desperate
howls of wolves echoing through the dark
wooded tunnels of trees,
their legs severed.
CARMEN'S HYPOTHETICAL PERSON AND THE CALL FOR PRESENCE
I was struck yesterday by Carmen's words regarding the potential "for us to circle the wagons and exclude people who aren't like us," and the deep desire for presence they reveal: "That hypothetical person is a great loss to me. I don't know if he or she exists, or whether I am concerned about something ethereal."
These words are not merely about the blog, they stretch beyond our strange encounters here and through to the rest of humanity. Carmen (and Emily)brought me back to Martin Buber, who was a great influence in my early life.
The following is an excerpt from Martin Buber's `Between Man and Man,' in which Buber, through one of these great losses that Carmen alludes to, recognizes that spiritual presence must be a relational act, and one expressed as empathic attunement:
"What happened was no more than that one forenoon, after a morning of "religious" enthusiasm, I had a visit from an unknown young man, without being there in spirit. I certainly did not fail to let the meeting be friendly, I did not treat him any more remissly than all his contemporaries who were in the habit of seeking me out about this time of day as an oracle that is ready to listen with reason. I conversed attentively and openly with him--only I omitted to guess the question which he did not put. Later, not long after, i learned from one of his friends--he himself was no longer alive--the essential content of these questions; I learned that he had come to me not casually, but borne by destiny, not for a chat but for a decision. He had come to me, he had come in this hour. What do we do when we are in despair and yet go to a man? Surely a presence by means of which we are told that nevertheless there is meaning.
Since then I have given up the "religious" which is nothing but the exception, extraction, exaltation, ecstasy; or it has given me up. I possess nothing but the everyday out of which I am never taken. The mystery is no longer disclosed, it has escaped or it has made its dwelling here where everything happens as it happens. I know no fullness but each mortal hour's fullness of claim and responsibility, and know who speaks and demands a response."
What specifically happened that day on the bus I was only later to find out. In Aubrey Hobes' `Martin Buber: An Intimate Portrait,' Buber shares with the young Hobes what transpired and how it forever transformed his "religious" experience:
"I asked Buber at our next meeting, "What happened to the young man?" Buber closed his eyes for a moment, as if in pain. The he said quietly, "He went. And shortly after he took his own life. Do you see what that means? He came to consult me at his hour of deepest need. He came to ask me whether to choose life or death. I talked to him openly. I was sympathetic. I tried to answer his questions. But I answered only the questions he asked me. And so I failed to see through to the man behind the questions. And why did I fail? Because that morning, before his visit, I had been filled with relious enthusiasm, a mystical ecstacy, in which I felt myself one with eternity and the life beyond.
Then this man came to see me. It was an everyday event, an event of judgment. And it
`converted' me because it showed me that there could be no division between the life here and the life beyond."
Om's story
Would you talk to me about the last line?
EMILY'S REQUEST: MARTIN BUBER AND CONVERSION
Emily, thank you for reading this beautiful piece by Buber and asking for my response. There have been moments in my development when I came across the words of masters, the moment of the encounter of which almost completely transformed me. Buber was one of those masters (Wordsworth, Whitman, Emerson, Huxley, Rilke, Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh, Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj and Nagarjuna are a few more). This excerpt and these words: “But I answered only the questions he asked me. And so I failed to see through to the man behind the questions….” taught me more about empathy than years of analysis (or probably more accurately, because of my years in analysis).
And so, in these last lines that you are referring to, Buber shares, “And it `converted' me because it showed me that there could be no division between the life here and the life beyond." In the Judeo/Christian world, there is a “life beyond” in the otherworldly divine dimension of God. But, for Buber, in his I-Thou philosophy, there can only be an authentic encounter with God through a relational mode of being, that is, one centered in a deep, intimate dialogue of revelation, first and foremost between human beings. Buber’s conversion, or radical transformation in awareness, was the revelation of God recapitulated within the human encounter. There is no duality or separateness anymore in Buber’s mystical gnosis: the life beyond and the life here are two aspects of One Consciousness. Human life is the internal struggle of this realization.
Following was a journal entry I made from my encounter with Buber:
One mild and clear early summer day on my way to work, while walking down third avenue, I stopped by a bakery and bought a toasted and buttered blueberry corn muffin. It was just an ordinary day, an ordinary walk, an ordinary bakery, and an ordinary muffin that I have had many times. But, happening upon the curb, waiting for the light to change, everything stopped, or so it seemed. I looked up at the blue sky and something changed; as a matter of fact, everything changed. I felt the most intense sense of wonderment, yet the intensity was not of an intense kind; it was more of a calm elation, an elation that filled me up to the point of widening the boundaries of my embodied state. And further, expanding the boundaries of mind to where there was an immediate dissolution of separateness, from embodied self, my interpreted self in the metaphorical space of mind, and the world surround. I was one with...with anything and nothing that can be perceived, thought, or felt. And it was the most ordinary of experiences; and because it was the most ordinary of experiences, I felt joy; and the filling up was with life in all its imperfection and imagined beauty.
Yes, this was a moment, and it was the moment, where time really didn't stop, but rather ceased to exist as we tend to know it. And because time ceased, space necessarily dissolved along with it. And because the moment had permitted time and space to dissolve, the mind's innate tendency to divide healed the division, or split that ordinarily led me to see the world (myself included) as discontinuous, or boundaried. But, what was most revealing about this moment was the realization that death did not exist--that is, as we typically (and terrifyingly) experience it. Why? Because in this very moment, it was fully embedded in life, and life was now, eternal. Death dissolved.
And as I witnessed this realization, I observed the most interesting of things; that this toasted and buttered blueberry muffin wrapped in this aluminum foil and in this brown paper bag, was born out of the whole of Consciousness. That is, what was here in my hand was the most delicate and beautiful expression of life and evolution, and presented to me for only one dollar and fifty cents. That this muffin flowered out of the seed that was planted in the earth by the loving hands of someone who I have never met, but who had worked hard with sweat and with weathered hands from seasons and seasons of farming; and other hands who had picked the berries that lay comfortably in the yellow flakes; berries that themselves grew from bushes planted perhaps by other hands. And these berries too come from seeds; seeds themselves that contain, as the grain, chemical properties that not only sustain life, but also have a brilliant aesthetic flavoring which appeals to the taste.
And the butter from the cows and the farmers who come together here today to share with me this most sacred gift. And the structures built to protect the cows and the farmers, and the machinery produced from the metals from within the earth from the farms all the way to the manufacturing plants and oven here in this bakery. How many hands? How many fingers? How many hearts touched this blueberry muffin that, when I get to my office, I will eat. In a flash, I felt the interconnectedness of beings and things and all and everything entering into consciousness, and of which I am part. In my wholeness I am part, and in all the inclusive part-ness that I am, I seek still the higher streams of humanity. This is evolution. This is Buber's life here and life beyond, All as One. This is Spirit; this is the "religious."
Getting there involves encountering the relationship, which in turn mirrors one's need to question, because the relationship confronts the self's polar need to conceal. Life both conceals and reveals, and this truth can only be realized through the relationship. Each time you encounter me, and I encounter you, a decision is made to turn towards revelation. And this I mean in the most ordinary of ways. The problem with most of us is that we tend to choose types of relationships where the other also needs to conceal, often due to very similar trauma wielded against the child's will to assert and emerge into his or her own voice. But, the good news is that the deeper, concealed part of us at some point chooses the question over the pain of concealment. It might be now, it might be later, but it will be.
The choice of therapy is the choice of revelation. Therapy in this sense is evolution's push, in the form of the individual soul, to transcend the concealment. The muffin parable is an illustration of how one's spirituality is closer than what we would ordinary think. Because spirituality is, as Abraham Heschel and Martin Buber would agree, within the world. Spirituality is confronting reality and yet asking the tougher questions, such as, how shall I live? Who am I in this world? Why do I conceal? How do I conceal?
The parable also speaks to paradox, because to find the supreme interconnectedness that I experienced that day requires a turning inward to the interior spaces of the self. This is where most of the therapeutic spends its time, in the ministering to the self, in the play space of mind. Inch by inch, row by row, we're gonna make this garden grow....
I always suspected that the truly religious has no face. It has no name, no ideology, and no image.
QUESTION FOR THE GROUP
I think we have been glossing over something very important. There is a parable of the Blind Men and the Elephant. In this tale, a group of blind men touch an elephant to learn what it is like. Each one touches a different part, but only one part, such as the leg or side or the tusk. They then compare notes on what they felt, and learn they are in complete disagreement as to what an elephant is like. I am always humbled by the idea of perspective or point of view and have learned that there are no right or wrong views, per se, only part-truths. We all have a piece of the pie which, together, makes a whole (though, of course, we now know that a whole is only part of a larger whole ad infinitum).
To continue, I love being around people who speak languages I do not understand. It's like song for me. Romantic and exotic, fresh and yet strangely familiar. I find myself playfully asking the person, What does that mean? Please explain this word or that phrase. I also find myself asking lots of questions of people who are engaged in activities or disciplines I am unfamiliar with. What is the name of that flower? How does this work? Why do you prostrate before your teacher? I am a perennial student, most things I don’t know. I don’t think I’ll ever really understand how a plane doesn’t break apart when hitting turbulence, or even how it stays in the air! But, I’m fascinated by it all the same. I am forever curious!
And so to my point and question for the group? I believe it was Emily who said that certain terms I have used make her feel disconnected and Carmen who expressed a great sadness if anyone was left out of the discussion because they didn’t understand “our” language. I agree with both of you. But, at the same time, if I didn’t discuss ideas or personal experiences in the ways I feel and express them, I would be denying myself a deep pleasure and authorship of my experience and voice. I would be, in a very fundamental way, rejecting my needs. And I know that’s not what you’re suggesting, in fact Carmen explicitly stated “I'm just pointing out a problem that I've encountered over and over…. It's why I tried to stress the dilemma rather than a solution. I'm not sure whether there's a solution. I'm not sure I want a "solution."”
Well, I have at least a partial solution, which I before suggested we’ve been glossing over. Why not just ask me what I mean? Or say, Om, I’m not familiar with that term, can you explain it? How happy that would make me!!! I know that when I use let’s say a more abstract term, it is absolutely not to distance myself from you, but to express in a kind of shorthand a point I’m trying to make. It’s true, I love words, I love their aesthetic, their texture, form and sounds; I feel words!But, mostly, these particular terms, as I said have historical significance and explanatory power in an abbreviated form. One word, for example, such as “intersubjective,” could take up a whole book to explain, in fact, many books. It’s extremely complex, and so it feels more practical, efficient and easier for me to use the term to express what it is that I am trying to convey right now while the experience is fresh in my mind. I could come back to it later, and hopefully with you, to open it up and look inside and explore its myriad qualities and meanings and associations. I love doing that!
I am all too conscious and aware of the difficulty with communication, and particularly communicating big ideas. Many people get lost and the level of complexity of some ideas and words might engender feelings, for example, of isolation, inadequacy, shame, or even boredom and disinterest. And so, instead of rejecting my way of expressing my thoughts (and therefore rejecting our relationship), I’m wondering if it’s possible to engage me further, smile and ask, Om, what do you mean?
yes: an answer for Om
This sort of post is exactly why I'm still here. There is that comfort level, even with you, whose name I do not even know. I know that this isn't a fast-talking group of grad students who use big words to say nothing, and who therefore react with anger and defensiveness when you ask them what their big words mean. This is a situation, in contrast, where most of us are trying to mean even more than what we say or say exactly what we mean even when the words escape us. And that's a worthy goal for me.
--
I'm sitting in a cafe right now, and Snow Patrol is playing Chasing Cars gently in the background. The girl at the table next to mine is writing flashcards for her art class, and we look up at each other and realize we are both humming along. We smile awkwardly. She turns back to her flashcards. I go back to writing here, and the song keeps playing. The moment is over. The cafe chatters around us, students and the staccato of fingers over keys and the barista washing dishes and a passing siren. I am no longer alone.
Yes, to Om,: Yes to Carmen
I am here for similar reasons. Trying to reach out and to be reached. I do understand what Om is saying about language and how he communicates and what challenges his heart and mind. I am so often at a loss for words. I create divisions between the language of the mind and that of the heart, as if they the were strangers to each other. It is how I think about Proust and Joyce; Proust of the heart and Joyce of the mind. It is something that I need to revisit.
As someone who lives very much on the intuitive level, I want to feel the words first. Sometimes words seem like brick walls. I will ask more often, what do you mean? Will you break your words down so that I can understand.
I am willing to go the distance and take more risks.
communication difficulties
The two dollar words are really not the obstacle. This blog is, at its heart, Noah exposing himself and inviting conversation and response to his risk taking. Such an act calls for a response at the same level. It is our responsibility (mine too) to work to speak back to him at that level or to respond visually in kind. He is the initiator of this blog... I think that it is centered on him. (I am aware writing this that you may object. That your comments and analysis and tangents have been in the service of Noah's efforts.)
From my perspective as a reader rather than a talker (so far), the difficulty has been in staying true to responsibility. I find Noah to be alarmingly open. It is unsettling. My first impulse is to move away. But I have become a little better at breathing and staying. I intend to stay, and I am grateful to this little community for being there and being willing to go wherever.
untitled
Let go.
Like a message drawn by the wind.
Hold your feet to the ground
Follow your breath to the mountains.
Stand quietly.
Don’t’ be afraid.
Let your breath take you
to where you can’t see
to where you can’t know
to where you have never been.
Open your eyes to silence
See like a child
In a universe of newness
Reach for the shadows
Dance on the sidewalk
Follow the butterfly
Pretend you have wings.
When the time arrives
Hold nothing back.
Let me go like your breath
Let the wind pass in circles around you.
Welcome me home.
EMILY UNPLUGGED
Just lovely, Emily. These lines, “Hold your feet to the ground/Follow your breath to the mountains” speak to me of the roots and wings of spiritual practice: rooted in wisdom, steadiness, equanimity, clarity and perseverance; and taking flight into the higher subtle levels of awareness. And then “When the time arrives/Hold back nothing.” It’s always about timing, isn’t it? And steadiness leads to readiness. But, then, curiously, you shift in the last stanza to the poem’s `I’ in “Let me” and “Welcome me.” Why did the `I’ as referent come in at this moment? What does “me” refer to? First, it’s “let me go” and then it’s “welcome me home,” like a going and coming in a full circle, and yet “home” seems to be a higher home then from whence `I’ came. And the breath is fueling the whole poem in the dissolution of constraint and embodiment, and perhaps even delusion and illusion. I love this meditative breath, like om:)
It is in that space
we keep looking, as if at a parting
ship, its sheer size in the sea blending
and shrinking between the green and the sky;
when the mote in our eyes disappears
again, and eyes sigh, and tear. I know
if Orpheus had not turned back, or if
choices were never made, the earth that nestled
the sea would fold interminably
within itself, left free of metaphors, unchanged.
your untitled
emily, reminds me so much of my favorite poem, one I know from memory:
from Sonnets to Orpheus: II; 29.
Silent friend of many distances, feel
how your breath still enlarges space.
From the dark tower let your bell peal.
Whatever feeds upon your face
grows strong from this offering.
Transform matter into mind.
What is the source of your deepest suffering?
If drinking is bitter, become wine.
In this limitless night, be the magical force
at the intersection of your senses,
the meaning of their intercourse.
And if what's earthly no longer knows you
say to the unmoving earth: I flow.
To the rushing water speak: I stay.
-Rilke
My friends
There is so much to reply to tonight; so much love. But my mind is so tired that I must retreat. I just wanted to say goodnight and tell all of you that you will be a part of my dreams tonight. When I awaken I want to give my full attention.
ARNOLD
"I find Noah to be alarmingly open. It is unsettling. My first impulse is to move away. But I have become a little better at breathing and staying." I loved these sentences. he is "alarmingly" open, like a gust blowing the door of fear wide open! It might push you back a little but the excitement it evokes presses you to stay steady and receive, just receive his gifts. Here they come, two by two!
my response to Om's lovely question
now seems about as good a time as any to express that i've been feeling a bit defensive about this part of our ongoing discussion. just what am i defensive about? well, this feels too familiar to me.
it's like this. i go to therapy. i have been doing so for a few years now and the growth has been truly remarkable. friends of mine who have been open to the possibility of my growth look back with me and laugh, astonished. it is very surprising what can be done in just a few years (just a few months... just a few weeks...) a few months ago my mom came in with me a few times; it was sort of the crescendo of a part of my process towards which i had been building. you've seen some of my thoughts and poems on 'mother' -- all of this came in the months building up to mymother coming in: i was able to experience the divorcing of my mother from 'mother'. in other words: i began to see my mother as a person, and my relationship became one between people, as opposed to one in which i maintain a level of anger expecting her to meet certain needs of mine. i was able to let go and rebuild. i had already done a lot of the work, so bringing her in was in some ways just allowing myself to have the experience of the work i had been doing, to allow my feelings to manifest in something like a tangible way.
recently (over the last two months) my father has come in with me nearly once a week (i have two sessions per week). it has been difficult and frustrating, but very rewarding. as of this week he won't be coming in any more, and the last session ended, as he needed, on a "positive note." but last week was very difficult. we entered into a difficult space, and i had to relive in forty-five minutes all of the painful aspects of growing up with him; the difference was, now i have an awareness of, a confidence in, and a language for my experience (my emotions), none of which i had when i was growing up. what does that mean? it means i have a clear experience of my feelings, i have full trust in my experience (and thus do not call my feelings into doubt), and i have a language to understand and express my feelings. and so while i had not been able to "do the work" before my father came in, i did all sorts of work with him there. he too became a person for me.
now, onto a bit more concrete an explanation why this feels too familiar to me. one of the things my father consistently called attention to over the course of the weeks he attended therapy with me was the way i respond to things like questions. for example, he'll ask me something and i'll sit quietly for a while, take a few sips of juice, and then do my best to clearly articulate my response. his suggestion was that in that moment i am censoring myself-- that i am thinking a lot about my response and moving through all these various words to decide what to say, what not to say, and so on. from his perspective i can see why it would look this way to him, but there was a fundamental step missing. he didn't ask me what i was doing in that moment. he didn't because, i think, he didn't know to. when i explained to him, numerous times, that what i am doing is re-living the experience of, for example, the question, and reflecting on my response to it in a non-verbal way, waiting to be aware enough of the experience in order to verbalize it... he couldn't really respond. this sort of way of experiencing things is not comprehensible to him, and so the next week would come and he would again suggest that i was thinking too much and censoring myself, etc. what he wanted, i discovered through some dialogue, was for me to just speak up more quickly and get it all out. but even once i got it out he wanted what i was saying (or at the very least how i was saying it) to be altered in some way... what wasn't there was the ability to recognize some important aspects of my (very very different) personality and perspective, and so what was there was the desire to re-contextualize my experience into something more familiar to him.
you likely read my poem about part of this experience. what i must be able to do is help you meet your needs without sacrificing myself; but if you are going to deny my needs, as the poem ends, i've got to take a stand.
this has been a lot of words, but what am i saying? why have i been defensive and what does all of this have to do with the blog? i have been defensive for what i can split into three reasons: 1) i can see Om's needs being expressed in some of the posts that have given other posters trouble; 2) i experience many of my own needs being met in those posts/discussions; 3) i have taken both of these things and abstracted them into the experience of having one's needs denied, being told to leave one's needs behind because other people don't connect with them. can you see what i mean and why i have brought up this situation in therapy? what i am doing, essentially, can be easily related to my experience with my father:
i can get angry with and blame my father, as i did for many years, and isolate myself from a relationship with him. or, once i've gained the ability to, i can take a stand in a different way. i can, in fact, learn to recognize my father and search for a way of meeting my needs without failing to recognize his. and so i can struggle and cry and push against him, learning so very much in the process, and just a few days later be light and loving and calm-- what happened? i took a stand, asserted my voice, and yet recognized him as a human being: that experience results in understanding (love), which means i have begun to stop pushing against him with expectation and disappointment, and instead to understand what my relationship with him is and can be, and to begin to meet the needs he is unable to help me meet and to create other relationships for meeting those needs.
but not all relationships have to be limited in this way, if both members can help meet each other's needs. and my father and i, who already have a pretty good relationship, will only get closer from now on; and, in fact, with my newfound understanding (i won't expect the kind of recognition i know he can't give) there likely won't be too many difficulties between us-- that is, as long as he doesn't step on my needs and try to squash them again.
and so when i see something that feels very much like someone's needs going unrecognized (and even being denied) because they don't quite fit into someone else's perspective, it pushes a button. my goal (in the responses i've given to this part of our discussion elsewhere on the blog) has been to both recognize and validate the experiences of those who have had trouble with Om's posts, and to recognize and point out Om's and my own needs. it seems to me that this sort of balance is part of one recipe for intimacy. the other thing is that this is all practice for me... practice practice practice. this is a barbecue, and in the backyard there is a sandbox where i play.
A JAMES BY ANY OTHER JAMES
I think Carmen says it best: “This sort of post is exactly why I'm still here.” And we could add Arnold’s “alarmingly open” to this one, too. And I ask myself, what’s after so much openness? And I respond, “Openness.” I think what I love most about your post, James, is both the distance you are willing to go and the level of responsibility you are willing to take to understand. I love the tilling, the breaking up of the hardened layers of consciousness so that the soil can breathe and the new seeds of wisdom sowed. There is a clear map for a partially known territory, a beautiful paradox of psychic truths that you handle with such care and skill. For me, this introspective immersion is not so much to reveal the oedipus complex of son and parents, but the human complex of language and mind.
Up, children, haste ye, quit these altar stairs,
Take hence your suppliant wands, go summon hither
The Theban commons. With the god's good help
Success is sure; 'tis ruin if we fail.
"It is ruin if we fail." But, fail at what? I think every person that walks through the analytic portal of therapy is Oedipus grappling with deep conflicts around truth, or perhaps deep truths around conflict. And I’m sure the analyst is Oedipus, too, in the day to day struggle against death through his or her own ignorance. Yet, what James makes evident for me is that something is different for him; through introspective space he is also the Sphinx meting out life's riddles, to himself and his relationships. Looking inward. Inspecting. Asking the tough questions. Penetrating and paring down the mental contents, all of which serve as riddles. Exhuming the detritus that, on closer inspection, is paradox. Dismantling the ruse of reality and the dualism that lie there. All who enter into the analytic realm of Oedipus are, like Nietzsche, potential madmen.
It takes people like you, James, who live so presently and intensely in the tension of reality and truth to move through life’s sweet, dark and murky transitional spaces from childhood to childlike-hood seeking light. Thank you!
I NOAH MAN WHO SPEAKS OF THE INNER SELF
Inwardness, such a beautiful word. Inwardness is the turning towards a private inner space, much like the heliotrope, or sunflower “which, with the sun, though rooted fast, doth move.” The sunflower turns outward toward the sun; individual consciousness turns in and enters into a whole dimension of being that is its own light. This is perhaps the deepest dimension of self, and was first introduced by St. Augustine. I share this because, as we daily and openly and fluently express this aspect of our consciousness on Noah’s blog, we might indeed be taking for granted that this inner self always existed in the experience of human beings, that is, that it pre-existed. Well, it didn’t, and this fact speaks to the idea of an evolution of consciousness; that the embodiment connected to matter is evolving into mind and beyond, as we speak. Mind, through language, constructed an inner self, a metaphorical container that, in turn, expanded language and thought. Why?
This inner self not only became an integral element of self-understanding, it worked it’s way deeply into the intellectual heritage of the West. Without this concept, we would be describing our experiences differently. Many argue that this inner self is not a metaphor at all, even though it is not inner in a spatial sense. In particular philosophical and theological discourse, inner space is a level of being belonging specifically to the soul. It is distinct from a God above it and from the embodied world outside and below it. But it is like a space, however, because it contains things which are hidden
To All
I struggle with my responses. I am an LD person, always tumbling into letter reversals and the spaces between the beginning of a thought and its end. I leave out necessary words, then wander off with others who come from a different thought that was not supposed to arrive so soon. I am a time traveler. My tenses switch constantly. You might find me in the past one moment, flying into the future the next, or I might slip right in beside you in the present.I am telling you this because I don’t want to be ashamed of my need to strip things to the bone. It explains my need to understand complexity, simply. I don't want to judge anyone's language. I want to understand. I grew up thinking that all the theoretical terms were a means of intimidation. That theoretical language had somehow become sport, a game that I wasn't coordinated enough to play I understand the why of my assumptions and judgments.
I need to taste words. I need to feel where they land in my body. If they land directly in my heart I have an easier time understanding. I have always trusted my heart more than my brain. So the bigger words, the ones that I know vaguely but don’t know how to taste, paralyze me. I am willing to try rehab.
James,
Your post made me think about your silent space before your words are formulated. I see it as a door in the wall to the garden. I have to sit on the wooden bench in the garden and breath or I will be overwhelmed by such beauty. Sometimes beauty is so painful that I find myself shutting down. Joy is the same way. In beauty I see death. I still struggle.
Om, you posed a question regarding my untitled poem. You asked about my use of the word “I” at the end of the poem. In my imagination, I was speaking to someone who I love deeply and who deeply loves me. I was imagining that I had just died. I wanted to tell the person I loved to go on living. If I knew that the living could live, if the living would follow the breath to the mountain, then we both could rest.
My greatest fear is that the people I love will do as I did when my sister died. I stopped living. I was afraid to let go. I want to set the living free so that I can free. So that we both can find home.
I am deeply grateful for the invitation to this barbecue. It's the best one I've ever been to.
So, what the hell is inter subjectivity anyway?
A ROOM OF MY OWN INTERSUBJECTIVE VIEW
Emily, your description of what you refer to as “an LD person” is so tender and vulnerable and, I would almost say, innocent (in a Wordsworthian way). I picture a ball in a schoolyard on a windy day or a kite wiggling and wobbling in a maze of air. Motion is the mode of expression and breath the current in which the sentences of words of letters and spaces between stream through in an effort to reach their destination of connection. But, be assured, the connection is always there. Thank you for such a gorgeous and vivid act of sharing. I really love this: “I need to taste words. I need to feel where they land in my body. If they land directly in my heart I have an easier time understanding.” I can totally relate to this.
I must say I have been blessed to have a positive relationship with words, and I thank my father who, before he died, lulled me with words. We were very poor and my father very sick but he showered me with the love of the word, because he loved the word. I think it was the only thing that comforted him. I remember his hands:
My Father's Hands
They were soft and almost translucent
like cloth held up to light
a dove cooing across my cheek
on cold winter nights
its feathers tickling my ears
with poems of words
before sleep
before the notes
of winter night
pecked against the pane
by the creaking tree
and into my dream
where I was the bird
nestling into my father
lying there
unconscious
before the croaking old world
buried him deep
beneath the dream
beneath the wind and soft
hands cooing on winter nights
against my cheek.
A Second Chance
The years have wandered since I was a boy
sitting in my father's chair
my father beside me reading softly
the words of a poem
I watched his fingers dance through the verse
as he read
helping me catch the word
the phrase
the meaning
the picture painted in the memory
of another man's mind
The poem unfolded in blades of blue
rushing grass against afternoon's shadow
My father's weary brow
thick and thirsty for love
held eyes the color of sea
the depth of ocean
Where he had raced in his loneliness
I don't know
I sit here now beside you
helping you find the phrase
work the word
create pictures in the memory
of another man's life
like sea groping the shore
And so, we come to a word, “intersubjectivity.” And I think of you, Emily and the bigger words you vaguely know but leave you paralyzed because they don’t make their way to your heart. And I feel a sadness because the between of two beings that the intersubjective is, is shadowed by the strangeness of the term. Hopefully, I can find reparation in my effort and intent to recognize you and your subjectivity, that is, the person you are. Imagine you and I as these two subjectivities, and we are, and this beautiful blog the intersubjective space, and it is. Within this space that is between us, a flowering of relationship occurs as we both nurture and nourish each other. This is the sacred space I spoke of before, the co-determined space where we co-evolve, where we mirror each other’s feelings and needs, and bring out the best of who we are as separate but related beings.
One of my favorite lines in a film is when Helen Hunt, in `as Good as it Gets,’ says to Jack Nicholson, “You know, I don’t like who I am when I’m with you.” In this intersubjective space, Jack Nicholson empathically fails Helen Hunt, but her self-esteem is strong enough for her to dissolve the intersubjective field from which their relationship resided. My beloved Rilke has some words to say about these two (subjective) beings in this (intersubjective) sacred space of relationship. Like Emily, he wants to “unfold,” to free himself of the constraints of the afflictive emotions that engender ignorance or, as he calls it, blindness.
i want to be a mirror for your whole body,
and I never want to be blind, or to be too old
to hold up your heavy and swaying picture.
I want to unfold.
I don't want to stay folded anywhere,
because where I am folded, there I am a lie
And I want my grasp of things
true before you. I want to describe myself
like a painting that looked at
closely for a long time,
like a saying that I finally understood,
like the pitcher I use every day,
like the face of my mother,
like a ship that took me safely
through the wildest storm of all.
THE INTERSUBJECTIVE POEM: ROBERT FROST
In a way, all poems are intersubjective, in that they reach into all the subjective spaces of `I' and bring them together in the peculiar form called poem. Even when an object is not a subject, with the magic of a kind of animistic wand, it comes alive as the poet’s `I’ imbues it with his or her animated essence. As my beloved Rilke says, “Reflecting on my task, however, it has become clear to me that I have not come before you to speak of people, but rather of things.
Things.
When I say the word (are you listening?), it grows silent; the silence that surrounds things. All motion subsides and becomes contour, and something permanent is formed from the past and the future: space, the great calm of things, liberated from desire."
What Rilke experiences in his relationship to things is not a spiritual as opposed to a material substance, but the intricacy of the intersubjective space they both share and which gives a new meaning to (in the case of an object and subject) the subject’s experience. When there are two human beings, the intersubjective space gives and greatly enhances the meaning of each other’s individuality. This is the paradox of the intersubjective, it enhances autonomy so that it can flower into a community consciousness.
Robert Frost’s `West Running Brook’ is a favorite of mine and I used to recite parts of it all the time. It speaks to me of the intersubjective space of this couple, especially in the last line, “'To-day will be the day of what we both said.'”
'Fred, where is north?'
'North? North is there, my love.
The brook runs west.'
'West-running Brook then call it.'
(West-Running Brook men call it to this day.)
'What does it think k's doing running west
When all the other country brooks flow east
To reach the ocean? It must be the brook
Can trust itself to go by contraries
The way I can with you -- and you with me --
Because we're -- we're -- I don't know what we are.
What are we?'
'Young or new?'
'We must be something.
We've said we two. Let's change that to we three.
As you and I are married to each other,
We'll both be married to the brook. We'll build
Our bridge across it, and the bridge shall be
Our arm thrown over it asleep beside it.
Look, look, it's waving to us with a wave
To let us know it hears me.'
' 'Why, my dear,
That wave's been standing off this jut of shore --'
(The black stream, catching a sunken rock,
Flung backward on itself in one white wave,
And the white water rode the black forever,
Not gaining but not losing, like a bird
White feathers from the struggle of whose breast
Flecked the dark stream and flecked the darker pool
Below the point, and were at last driven wrinkled
In a white scarf against the far shore alders.)
'That wave's been standing off this jut of shore
Ever since rivers, I was going to say,'
Were made in heaven. It wasn't waved to us.'
'It wasn't, yet it was. If not to you
It was to me -- in an annunciation.'
'Oh, if you take it off to lady-land,
As't were the country of the Amazons
We men must see you to the confines of
And leave you there, ourselves forbid to enter,-
It is your brook! I have no more to say.'
'Yes, you have, too. Go on. You thought of something.'
'Speaking of contraries, see how the brook
In that white wave runs counter to itself.
It is from that in water we were from
Long, long before we were from any creature.
Here we, in our impatience of the steps,
Get back to the beginning of beginnings,
The stream of everything that runs away.
Some say existence like a Pirouot
And Pirouette, forever in one place,
Stands still and dances, but it runs away,
It seriously, sadly, runs away
To fill the abyss' void with emptiness.
It flows beside us in this water brook,
But it flows over us. It flows between us
To separate us for a panic moment.
It flows between us, over us, and with us.
And it is time, strength, tone, light, life and love-
And even substance lapsing unsubstantial;
The universal cataract of death
That spends to nothingness -- and unresisted,
Save by some strange resistance in itself,
Not just a swerving, but a throwing back,
As if regret were in it and were sacred.
It has this throwing backward on itself
So that the fall of most of it is always
Raising a little, sending up a little.
Our life runs down in sending up the clock.
The brook runs down in sending up our life.
The sun runs down in sending up the brook.
And there is something sending up the sun.
It is this backward motion toward the source,
Against the stream, that most we see ourselves in,
The tribute of the current to the source.
It is from this in nature we are from.
It is most us.'
'To-day will be the day....You said so.'
'No, to-day will be the day
You said the brook was called West-running Brook.'
'To-day will be the day of what we both said.'
Intersubjectivity
I have been pondering all the responses to my question about intersubjectivity Let me try to articulate it as I think I understand it and guide me further if I am wrong. Is intersubjectivity the space where people meet - where a connection takes place after words or beyond words? Is it the place where understanding resides? Could it be the space where words end and being just is?
I am thinking right now of the moment when a child is born and the mother sees the baby for the first time. There is love everywhere, unspoken, yet understood.
Emily
Emily, i'm so glad to be
Emily, i'm so glad to be here with you. i just got a tremendous stirring from this post of yours. i've not yet been there to witness when a child is born and the mother sees the baby for the first time! such a short sentence is filled with so much for me: "There is love everywhere, unspoken, yet understood." this is so beautiful, and makes me even more excited for that experience and the many others like it i will someday have. i'm even more grateful for your question now that it has led us here.
intersubjectivity seems, now that i read this post of yours and think about it a bit, like a feeling you know well; it's just a matter of linking up the experience with the word. me? i came to understand the possibility of the experience through my understanding of the word itself; but i'm very new to this game, and language is there on my tool belt whenever i need it. i use language to move beyond language. you, on the other hand, clearly feel very deeply in a somewhat different way. it's funny, thinking now, i realize that had i known (how to), what would have been best may have been to just point you in the direction of one such experience of yours and to say, "that feeling, that's what i'm dubbing 'intersubjective.'"
what inspires me most about the baby is how in touch a baby is with its needs. of course, the baby doesn't have language to express these needs, and this is partly where the parents come in to give a way of communicating one's own experience. thus we learn to share our experiences with each other (and form a community). so when the mother is there looking at the baby for the first time, and the room is filled with love unspoken yet understood, all of those minds/selves in the room (the mother, the father, the doctor, whoever else may be there feeling that love) are sharing that love together -- or as i said, they are occupying the same space.
now i didn't put the baby in that list, and i did that on purpose. the baby is certainly experiencing the love in a very powerful way, but being so new to the world, i don't know whether the baby is in the intersubjective space. i'm not objecting to this, i just don't know what i think or feel about it. any one here have any thoughts?
James, thank you
I understand! Your post opened a window.... Yes, I can see how words can can be an avenue to explore emotions. I feel first and then struggle with the conceptual.
Tonight I feel refreshed.
RE: INTERSUBJECTIVITY
“Is intersubjectivity the space where people meet - where a connection takes place after words or beyond words?”
I try to describe intersubjectivity from a psychological perspective (there are others, for example, philosophical) as a space or field constructed by the interplay between two or more different individuals (starting with infant and caretaker). Within this space, the development of personal experience always takes place. I consider it a sacred space because it shapes the developmental process and potentially fosters the navigation of critical developmental tasks. It could also, however, rupture this development through empathic failures, which inhibit growth (or, as I described in my post (CARMEN'S HYPOTHETICAL PERSON AND THE CALL FOR PRESENCE), the rupture could be more devastating). What I love about your description, Emily, is that you bring together the psychological space (where language is critical) and the philosophical ground, which is “after words or beyond words.” This is very beautiful.
THE SUBJECTIVE IN INTERSUBJECTIVITY
I realize I shouldn’t assume that subjectivity is clearly defined. So, to play it safe, I’ll just note that subjectivity, as I refer to it, means “what it feels like,” or “experiencing a point of view.” Experience doesn’t happen to us, experience is intrinsic to being an `I.’ It is interior. Most important to the way I describe it, subjectivity is shared, as opposed to being private and cut off from others. From this perspective, because subjectivity is shared, intersubjectivity comes first, it is primary, subjectivity emerges out of it. You could see in Emily’s words that she comes from a very pure subjectivity, or experience:
"Once I could visualize the space where our communications meet
I could sense it
I could taste it
Only then, could I understand
where your words entered by heart.
There are boundaries being broken here."
Om, your view
I am going back and reading your posts with more understanding.
Once I could visualize the space where our communications meet
I could sense it
I could taste it
Only then, could I understand
where your words entered by heart.
There are boundaries being broken here.
I see a simple sparrow rising.
EMILY, OUR SUBJECTIVE VIEWS ARE INTER BEING :)
Thank you for your post, as always. I love how you and James are mirroring each other’s experience within an intersubjective space! Both are different experiences but you are both now recognizing each other’s subjective differences with an openness and desire to understand. In this space is what happens between individuals, and within the individual-with-others, rather than within the individual mind exclusive of others. Without the recognition of others, the mode of representing only one’s internal world (or point of view) results in not really distinguishing between what is real and what is imagined, and inside and outside; nor does it distinguish between me as an independently existing subject and me as a fantasy extension of your wishes and desires; that is, it does not distinguish when I am really a subject with a desire of my own.
The intersubjective allows for this beautiful exchange between you and James: Emily. “I feel first and then struggle with the conceptual.” James. “i came to understand the possibility of the experience through my understanding of the word itself; but i'm very new to this game, and language is there on my tool belt whenever i need it. i use language to move beyond language.”
From this point, your relationship now becomes a vessel from which to reformulate thinking into more inclusive and integrated perspectives. The “isms” of difference that rigidly adhere to narrowly defined belief systems begin to dissolve. This is the ultimate goal of all relationships: to resolve and transcend the opposition (differences) between us by reformulating the relationship. That’s exactly what this blog is doing!
dreams
i don't think i could write a warmer, more loving response than Om's; instead i'll defer my response to his, especially the opening two paragraphs and those deeply inspiring poems. i had to write after reading them, i just felt so stirred, i felt that if i just put pen to paper the connection would be made naturally; and so it was. i wrote.
i would like, though, to further his answer to your question 'what the hell is inter subjectivity anyway?' great question! i found his paragraphs on that to be exciting and fascinating, but also a bit tough. so i'm going to tell part of one of my dreams. in one of my posts i referenced that most of my deepest feelings of intimacy, care, and authentic relationship, came out of two dreams. there is one i have already shared some in comments about: putting my hand on her face and dissolving into the intersubjective, or inter-being. also, the song (did you know i only visited?) is sung to me by this dream character. there is another, however, that i haven't mentioned yet.
when i wrote the poem that ends, "Only a Mother-God" i hadn't yet known fully what that might mean. then i dreamt of my Mother-God and was quite grateful for having written the poem.
i won't tell the whole thing because it isn't necessary here. instead i'll summarize the opening and skip to the wonderful part. I knew her, but not intimately, so to speak. A big group of people went off to party, etc, and I chose to stay in and go to bed early-- she offered to stay with me a while, until the group circled back around this way. We went inside to my bedroom and began chatting.
I got ready for bed, undressing to just my boxers, and i slipped underneath the covers, seated right next to her. As soon as I got there, seated slightly behind her, I pressed my face against her shoulder very lovingly. This time it was only for a moment, and then we returned to conversation. I felt something strong in that moment, but I didn't think about it, I just let it linger within me. She was reading some big report of mine. I would get above the covers, sit on the other side of the bed, walk around the room a little, come back... All the time she calmly sat in place on the bed chatting with me. Finally after expressing my confusion about the report (I couldn't remember writing it!!) I sort of anxiously and much-too-carefully asked her, "You know, before you go I was wondering if maybe you could spend your time here a little differently..." She smiled (what a smile!), put down the book, and said, "James wants to get scratched."
I digress for a moment. I love being scratched-- she was absolutely right about it :) Also, when she smiled, and when she said that, I must try to convey how sincere and caring it was... there was no possibility of deception or even of confusion. She knew exactly how she felt, what she meant, and how she must convey it to me. She was being compassionate to just about the highest degree I've (consciously) experienced.
So when she said that, I smiled and began to move towards her. Ordinarily I'd lie in someone's lap to get scratched, but without quite realizing it, I just kept moving closer to her until finally Ipressed up against her shoulder -- this time from in front of her, where she could hold me. I didn't quite realize what I was doing, but the experience of warmth and safety was powerfully clear. She began to scratch me, and the scene shifted. When I woke up I did two things I just about never do as soon as I wake up; I quickly rose to a seated position, and I spoke: "Who was she?" As soon as I asked I received an image of her face, and could see within her eyes all of the women in my life... not a composite of them, but someone new, someone who already had access to all of those previous relationships and could attend to my needs deeply: a Mother-God.
But why do I bring this up in response to the question about intersubjectivity? I think my other dream might be a clearer way to answer the question, but i think this dream is so lovely and makes me so joyful i have got to share it here. what is important to me about the moment when i press up against her shoulder is: 1) the way she cares for me, knowing how to bear me and being there to give me safety when i need it; and 2) the way i trust her unquestioningly, not even needing to understand my own gesture in order to trust that she is there to hold me in. so i call this space intersubjective because neither of our experiences are insular, or isolated. we are aware of each other's beings. though she is caring for me (when i say mother-lover-child, this is 'mother' for sure), i am also willing to be cared for, unafraid. intersubjective because our subjective experiences are inter-woven with each other's. we are in a space in which we needn't think about each other's experiences (we can spend all our focus on some abstract report, for example) and yet we are right there with each other.
this dream, too, shows the difficulty of fully embracing that space. when i begin to think outside of our discussion i am uneasy, asking to be scratched. she, however, being very compassionate, shows me that it is safe to enter into that space fully. and so i do so nearly instinctually, knowing it is safe...
in the other dream after a very painful moment the recently blind new friend and i sit across from each other, both hurting very badly, both feeling lost. again without thinking i hold my hand against her face. this physical connections allows us to flow into each other's hurt, and actually heal each other merely by being there with each other, by sharing the space utterly. intersubjective, again, because my experience and her experience are tied into each other. in that space you couldn't isolate either of us, because we are inter-being.
in both dreams there is an experience that goes beyond language and beyond thought -- words can't quite make it there, for me -- an experience of holding in and being held in someone else's experience. intersubjective, really, because it laughs in the face of physics: one space being occupied by two subjects at once. intersubjective, insofar as i have understood it, is very much tied to intimacy.
Dreams
James,
Your dream made me remember one I had a few days after my sister, Izzy died.
After her funeral, and for many nights afterwards, our house was filled with people. It seemed that nearly everyone that Izzy knew including friends, teachers, camp counselors and family close and far removed, temporarily filled the space in our house where she was absent.
Then I had the dream that seemed to be a continuation of what was actually happening. In my dream, I kept opening the front door to greet people who were coming to visit Izzy. I saw people that hadn't actually come to the house but who I knew Izzy would want to see. I couldn't wait to tell her..
When I woke up I was so happy. It took a second for me to remember that she was dead
Yet, I felt that she was sending me some kind of message. I believed we had touched. I knew there must be a place where we could meet, a place invisible, undefined, unseen.
your blueeyed boy
Thank you, Emily. I had tears in my eyes reading this.
I cannot imagine losing a sibling. But I dreamed something similar, opposite, related, many months ago, remembering a conversation my brother and I had had once, as children.
The conversation happened in winter, as we built snow forts in the backyard. I had the best scarf out of the bin; I had come outside first and therefore claimed it. My brother came outside and offered to trade me his. I said no.
If I was freezing on a mountaintop, you wouldn't give me a scarf, he said petulantly. He was seven or eight, I nine or ten.
No, I said. If you were freezing on a mountaintop, you would have my scarf and my jacket. You would have my hat and my mittens. You're my brother.
He looked at me for a moment, then put his scarf on. And we played for hours outside, and when Mom called us in for hot chocolate, we went with the cold in our cheeks. I had something else hot like an ember deep inside me. I think it was love.
--
Later, almost a decade later, and sleeping, I saw him, grown as he is now, taller than me and becoming a man so quickly. He smiled, and the summer sun shone through him. I tried to reach out to him, but he just smiled again and turned away. Walked away. Disappeared.
I woke up and called home, just to make sure. He was fine. We talked. When we were done talking, I hung up. I couldn't stop shaking until I wrote it out somehow, until I made it someone not him.
--
so, Mister Death
last time you & me talked was
at the thing. not even a postcard
since then.
but he was mine, you know
not yours. he drove a Ford
& couldn’t tie a tie worth shit.
didn’t you know, we couldn’t even
fit all his baseball cards
into the casket.
his smile sucked down the sky
on a summer day, big sunrise
of a smile.
you weren’t there that August, when me & him
rigged a crystal radio in the backyard.
two of us pulled five stations
not one of them bad news.
Blue eyed boy
Carmen
Your poem made my mind swirl with a happy memory,
To a day in August when death wasn't there
and my sister taught me to swim.
I betrayed her once. I found the key to her diary. She wrote for the dead. Each entry started with "Dear Kitty," the same imaginary person that Anne Frank wrote for in her diary.
I learned who my sister was in love with, whose lips had touched hers, whose body she had rubbed against. My stomach rippled with sexual awakening.
Izzy was furious with me for an hour or two after she realized that the key to her words was not where she left it. I cried and promised that I would never do it again. She demanded that I tell what entries I read. I pretended that I had not seen the ones that I did.
Six months later she was dead.
I am glad that I read what was not mine to read. I have never shared the content with anyone, until now. The handwriting was elegant and her words were that of a fifteen year old in her full sexual awaking, yearning for love.
I feel so much joy in my sorrow.
EMILY AND THE DREAMCATCHER
Emily, I’m just getting around to responding to posts I haven’t read. I try to respond to everyone. Thank you for this gorgeous post. I feel I am here with you, then and now. I can see the deep love you have for Izzy, in many ways so much alive. And the memories and words left behind still imprinted in your heart. Though not too similar, I lost my oldest brother, who I also adored. He was much older and, with my oldest sister, raised me. My brother used to take me to elementary school in his 327 Tempest as he listened to and sang along with Neil Diamond singing “Sweet Caroline.” And I would watch him dress and change his socks. He took me to SEARS to buy my first fishing pole and gave me my first baseball mitt for my birthday. I also watched him wrestle my drunken father to the ground as I hid in the doorway of my bedroom.
I am a 8 again
My hairless body dances
In the shower as you wash my back and hair--
You prepare yourself for work,
The black sock held like a shoe shiner’s cloth--
Between your soft adolescent hands cleans your feet--
I open up on my 9th birthday my baseball mitt
And fishing gear on my 10th--
I sit beside you in your 327 Tempest
Up Willets Point on our way to school--
You hold me in fatherless arms.
---------------
I am free, my brother, and I leave the past behind
Like the shadow of our mother’s step
And the gaping hole in her mind.
My views no longer collide
And the strips of thought that once bantered about
No longer fork like roads and divide--
And the cormorants whose wings were pinned to air
Ten years ago, and were silent in day’s breeze, are still there--
It is August again in the Vineyard.
Catching dreams/catching memories
Do you think that once you leave the past behind you can dream it back into being?
CATCH AS CATCH CAN
"Do you think that once you leave the past behind you can dream it back into being?"
What a delicious question, Emily? To leave the past behind is not to forget the past but to dissolve the afflictive emotions attached to the memories. Fear, for example, is the memory of pain.
I see leaving the past as a process of sorting all the split-off traumatized parts of ourselves and then integrating them in a more organized and complex way. We can then, as you say, dream them back. Let's say dreaming them back is like honoring our collective and personal ancestral lineage as a way to navigate and guide consciousness towards Realization.
Though older symbolic images might fade in terms of their truth claims, they remain privileged landmarks subsumed in the higher levels of conscious states and stages. For example, in the Isis myth, Isis gathers her murdered husband, Osiris’ body parts that his brother Sent had scattered across the world. For me, this is the mind’s dissociative and repressive tendencies, yet also its deep desire and need to reintegrate (gather) painful memories in order to both heal and reunite with one’s true or higher nature. As such, the life process, rather than stagnating in habit, is opened again to breathe utterly and entirely.
Understanding Miss-Understanding
Great entry Om! I feel this way almost every time I read poetry... I'm left with a dumbfounded expression, mouth agape, preparing to die on the I-88 between Saratoga Springs and Rochester at the hands of a tired trucker. I'm also a deer.
Poetry is still very new to me, and I'm inspired by what it is and attracted to its power but I can't seem to get a handle on it. Thanks to everyone for offering an accessible space to explore. I'll try a completely uninhibited response next time I find myself in this situation, asking questions line-by-line; I must warn you, it may end up being every other line! I think we should thank Om for reminding us to never stop asking questions. :)
HEY, EVERYONE, THANK YOU FOR YOUR CARING RESPONSES!
J: We Japanese do not think it strange if a dialogue leaves undefined what is
really intended, or even restores it back to the keeping of the undefinable.
I: That is part, I believe, of every dialogue that has turned out well between
thinking beings. As if of its own accord, it can take care that the undefinable
something not only does not slip away, but displays its gathering force ever more
luminously in the course of the dialogue.
-- Heidegger, `On The Way To Language’
Intimacy-sedated
Hello friends. I have to be honest and say I am having trouble following these posts; they radiate with thoughtfulness, depth, love, and I recoil at their authentic reaching-outedness. Thank you all for giving so much and I'll try my best to connect and stay vulnerable. I'm very touched by the intersubjective space that is being set up, expanding and growing everytime I open the page to have a peek into the lives of the other experiential pilgrims out there. I live in Beijing and have had the pleasure of exploring a new language, Chinese, which most importantly is what I see as a new way of pursuing and deconstructing desire. The subjectivity of language is fascinating because it represents a shared approach, a shared economical system which through our subjective realities functions as a tool within the intersubjective space. It is absolutely penetrating and yet can say nothing at all! Much like Om's Japanese speaker, the Chinese leave much, much un-said; and much of what we, as Americans, might leave unsaid, they will come right out and say it within the first 30 seconds of interaction! It makes me wonder if the complete integration of the languages of the world would offer a holistic insight into the billions of perspectives in the world. I'm thrilled that we're here together, studying our own and eachother's personal language, our personal voice, and I'm particularly excited to see what it does for me.
Being intimate, in general, was never something I was really taught - I was always able to speak, to perform, to create relationships (mostly repetitions of my torrent family relationships), but connectedness is not realization my family has had the fortune to recognize. Perhaps this blog is the perfect medicine for post-modern intimidated-osis. Riddle me this - how would you explain to the ancients the idea of a space for intimate discourse where noone knows eachother, you are not in eachothers presence, you never speak out loud, and your dialogue does not happen in real time? Mail without the E!
mail mail
this is great! wow, thanks for sharing -- all the way from Beijing! if you'd like to say so, i'd love to know how long you've been there and what it's been like, etc (in any way you'd like to share, either several big chunks, or as it comes up, and so on).
anyway, wow, so much terrific stuff in this post. i'll just stick to two quotes, though, so i don't end up writing too enormous a post: "It makes me wonder if the complete integration of the languages of the world would offer a holistic insight into the billions of perspectives in the world."
this is a truly satisfying thought for me. i've learned fragments of several languages (usually spending too much time on the intricacies of pronunciation to get very far into the language -- i love the way different languages sound and feel) and i am very eager to become more proficient in a language other than English. i'll be studying Sanskrit soon, and that for the path i seem to be taking in life, so unlike other languages i've learned it is something that i not only want to do, but also must -- this is very exciting for me because that means i will actually stick with it. (if Sanskrit goes well next would be Hindi, a language that actually gets spoken!)
what you have written here makes me even more excited about learning another language. it's funny, i had thought of the experience as a fairly insular thing, just wondering how it would affect my perspective and my experience, etc. but you've drawn my attention to the way it will open up different relationships and a different experience with the world, as opposed to a totally internal thing. if i start talking about how excited i am thinking about this i'll just never stop typing!!!
okay, so the other sentence of yours that draws my current interest is the from the beginning of your post: "I have to be honest and say I am having trouble following these posts."
i may be missing something, but from the rest of your delicious post i can't quite tell what the trouble is, and i would very much like to. Emily's troubles, for example, which she has very bravely and honestly expressed, have helped me so very much in the little time we've been together on this blog. i actually feel more open to and understanding of the experiences of others since coming here. i have felt my defensiveness and competitiveness both clearer than i had previously recognized, and i have begun to feel them (even if slowly) dissolving.
so i hope i haven't packed too much in and asked too much of you; i don't expect or need you to respond to everything i've written-- and each day i get better at being patient, so i'm sure i'll hear lots more from/about you as the conversation continues to unravel on this here blog.
:D
Beijing story
James, thanks for giving so much attention to my response! I feel the jaws of dialogue tightening around me, keeping me glued to late night blogging sessions. "I have felt my defensiveness and competitiveness both clearer than i had previously recognized, and i have begun to feel them (even if slowly) dissolving." I completely understand where you are coming from! I was very hesitant to make my first post as I've always been much too much of a perfectionist... Clearly I'll have to work through the usual barriers I encounter when building relationships, wanting to give off the perfect image, to keep up and match the beautiful words coming from an astonishing amount of people!
You asked about China. I live in Beijing and Beijing is fascinating. I left in May on a sort of finding-self pilgrimage after a lost year of feeling trapped and not taking care of myself. Almost on a whim, albeit a carefully thought out whim, I bought a one way ticket and didn't bring much but my clothing, my guitar, some "western" medicine, and a stack of books including a chinese dictionary, freud, lacan, music material, and one a friend gave me on chi gong. I wasn't quite sure what I was looking for, but I was looking, as opposed to the non-lookingness that consumed me and left me trapped in an destructive relationship - with my girlfriend, my school, my music and theatre groups, parents, my self - any little thing that one could have a relationship, mine was tainted, because I was tainted! Not to say my sojourn to 中国 (china) has completely "cured" me, but it was the step I needed to take into the unknown in order to keep developing as an individual.
I know China is the new big kid on the block (funny... I thought it had a 5000 year history?!) and it's been amazing witnessing a city literally rip itself a part and build itself back up, shinier and greener. Of course, the dirt all has to go some where - check out this article if you're interested in China's industry and pollution: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/25/asia/26china.php When I first came, I was waking up from my sleep coughing, and my throat burned for two weeks straight once I got over the jet lag. It's from the pollution in the food, the locals tell me. The drive to modernize coupled with certain parts of the leadership's complete lack of foresight of the consequences of their actions is killing the country, threataning to make the northern part the largest desert in the world, and even contributes to the permenant haze that lingers over LA. Yeesh! Just so we can keep our grocery shelves well stocked and the products cheap. It's like we find answers to questions that only bring about bigger questions which require more twisted and complicated answers. Mother earth is getting tired and we're already seeing the consequences.
I had a beautiful experience living in a hutong, the ancient alleyways of Beijing where you mostly find cab drivers and waiters living. Typically, hutongs are set up like courtyards, every family's individual compartment facing in towards a shared courtyard where the men gather at night to drink and play chess. My landlords got greedy and plopped a few extra free standing rooms in the middle, which turned my hutong into a maze of narrow passages :).
I shared this hutong with a couple of familes, including the landlord and his wife, the child of that marriage, the daughter from the previous marriage, and the grandparents... Including a bunch of odds and ends relatives I couldn't really keep track of due to my limited knowledge of the comlicated familial role-oriented vocabulary; 妹妹 mei mei for younger sister, 姐姐 jie jie for older sister, and on and on until your head is spinning... Even with the language barrier, so it was that I was to have a family again, an experience I had never had before and will never forget. Love penetrates the friction of cultural and language barriers (not to mention I was paying quite a bit higher than standard chinese prices for rent ;) ) and it was just wonderful having two younger sisters and a younger brother to play with. Children are the best learners of language and the best teachers too; they are not so caught up in the tangled mess of society and culture that they have forgotton how to be simple, and eloquent. Besides learning the mechanism of the language through asking questions, the kids I lived with tought me the answer to "what's the use, anyway?" The children allowed me to play with the language and not be perfect, and like Om's great post about intersubjectivity, I loved who I was with them - A bit of a clown, grateful for the exchange of love through language, using my god awful Chinese to connect just enough to find the shared space of meaning. I just noticed how much I've been writing, when all I'm trying to say is how sometimes to have only a few words is precious! Does anyone know some good short poems?
So although I say I learned to speak Chinese studying in America, then, er, a month in HeFei, then studying again for a month here in Beijing, the truth is I learned to study from the 2 year old and the 9 year old girls in my hutong.
INTERSUBJECTIVITY: COMING OUT OF THE CLOSET
The Closet
I thought of writing about a closet; a poem
I will write then keep on the outside
Of my thoughts to share with others
And me, who I might express
Inner things from the small, sometimes
Dark spaces of mind, much like my closet
That I, at times, keep closed from the world
Of many closets, where other minds
Like and unlike mine, hold onto things
They think they need but don't
Things they need to let go of, but can't
Because those things are memories
That, at times, beg to be released
But won't because loss like a mirror
Is harder to look into than held onto
And, in some mysterious way, like a crystal
Or stone, if held onto long enough will bring
Back what was lost like all things packed
Away in the closet. My mind holds onto
Closet things, things that close the mind
Off even from itself, like compartments
That preserve the concealed desires
And dreams that perhaps remain inside
And never like snow get off the ground
Or outside and onto the ground of experience
Nor the one desire that craves to unconceal
The closet things and open itself to the light
That brings with it like steps a view of all there
Is to offer to make this life a bit easier-- to reach
The cupboard or change a bulb, clean a window
Hang a rack, roll out the vacuum to vacuum the rug
Take out the basket to load the wash--
Or lift out the photo album, with presence
And care, and slowly look through a history
Of snapshots--of an old garden an old house
An old relationship where two people deeply
In love grow the garden, hang the racks, change
The light bulbs, vacuum the rug, and make
Love while cleaning out the closet.
Cooking marshmallows and playing statue of liberty
"An old relationship where two people deeply
In love grow the garden, hang the racks, change
The light bulbs, vacuum the rug, and make
Love while cleaning out the closet."
So beautiful. I'm just beginning to understand the relationship as the space to "clean out the closet." For a long time I've been trying to do this on my own, but you can only get so far. Lately when I've been encountering people my mind swirls - the computer in my brain runs through the limitless possibilities of "How": how should I interact? It's like nothing comes out naturally anymore, but not in a bad way, in a way that I am taking a step back, like moving back from the campfire that suddenly and surprisingly and finally took, shooting it's flames so you can see the border of the trees around the clearing. The fire is marshmallow ready and something in the burning stillness shows me the potential of the other being, the flame. S'mores anyone?
POEM ASCENDING A NUDE
Poem Ascending a Nude
Auguste Rodin-- My fight for sculpture uses up all my time, and still I lose
The dream I will share is not the true dream.
The images are not the real images. The legs
are not the actual legs, nor dreaming them ascending
a ladder like blooms of gold in rain, dripping onto
steps and ground, nor the footprints left behind
like a song. Nor the toes and foot kneading rungs
climbing ankle and shin against gravity against muscle
pressing out against skin high into the erect thigh
and buttocks, distended and lean, in a slant and bend
configured out of old principles and laws, a geometry
of reach stretching like fractured moons. The pool below
dreams them into its shimmering blue. Drying wet
from sun, they contemplate the sky in its inarticulate rise
and trajectory, spring into an infinite space they can
no longer sustain, then disappear into the blue below.
ascending a nude
"Drying wet from sun, they contemplate the sky in its inarticulate rise and trajectory, spring into an infinite space they can
no longer sustain, then disappear into the blue below."
I need a little clarification on the word"they" (contemplate the sky). I am not sure what "they" refers to.
Help me find my way.
Woops
the need for clarification of the "they" in Ascending A Nude is my post. I forgot to log in.
HI EMILY
"They" refers to the legs: "The legs
are not the actual legs, nor dreaming them ascending
a ladder like blooms of gold in rain..."
I wanted to create a poem version of a still-life, albeit the movement would possibly challenge that. It was an experiment in developing observation and the imagery flowing out of that.
A Sketch of Moments: Night
Each night I lower myself onto the sheets
of sleep. A movement
like many movements in space across time;
yet, unlike many movements
this is a moment of grace in the mirror
of depth.
The walls of body ordinarily contain me
like a bag of sand,
of cells exchanging secrets of past lives and imminent
death. But this moment,
when night air pinches the last gleam of light
and evenly cools the sheets
over the warm belly of mattress, my body touches
the eternal face.
The lumbering bulk that by day betrays the soul
in the quotidian battle
of mind, like prayer, dissolves
in air, gives way.
First is the knee like a comet as it loses its spin
and finally gives in
to gravity with a thrust, the weight of day and all
its reverberations. Mind
is trapped in the rattles and confusion of embodiment
until it surrenders
in the sheets. Arms and hands open as if to a dreamy
lover patiently awaiting
the weight and crush of body against resistant lines.
The hands, one
in the middle, the other edging the mattress in the last
balance before surrender.
The pillows peer out in silence. The comforter in the muted
lamplight crumples in silence;
The softened white walls holding masks of ancient tribes
whisper the silence;
The fan wafting air like a summer breeze hums the silence;
The billowing sift
of sandalwood languorously through night air
floats in silence;
My eyes rise under the closing lids as if toward
heaven: my body,
in a slow, unbroken stream of motion-- a petal
falling to earth-- turns
in the most delicate of ways, into a gentle, fetal
rest. Arms and legs
reach, stretch and search over the cool sheets;
like mother's fingers
I lift over the soft, crumpled comforter, shoulder rises,
head nuzzling into
pillow's fragrant blush. I smile in the last sight of
waking life. Heaven is upon me.
still life through time
"I wanted to create a poem version of a still-life, albeit the movement would possibly challenge that. It was an experiment in developing observation and the imagery flowing out of that."
interesting. when i read a wallace stevens poem i often have to re-read in several different ways in order for all the language's movement and imagery to become clear; and once it is clear i am more comfortable with the transcendent nature of the poem. in other words: i have to have a crystal clear understanding of the language in order to no longer need to have a crystal clear experience of the poem... i become at home in the intuitive experience. it's like other things, then, for me-- i use language to move beyond it; i make sense of the language of the poem thinking it will make sense of the poem, and it does, but in this very peculiar way: what i have is a clearfeeling of the poem birthed out of that clear (intellectual) understanding of the language. okay, that's enough repetition!
the reason i say this is because i read this poem similarly to the way i read those wallace stevens poems (particularly "The Snow Man")... so that when i am comfortable with the literal imagery, i become more comfortable with that feeling, that sort of intuition, language-less. i carefully track each bend and curve in your language until it brings me back to "the legs" and then back beyond to the title (and beyond!). discovering precisely what 'they' refers to is not just discovering that 'they' are the legs, because you begin the poem by saying, "The dream I will share is not the true dream. / The images are not the real images." and i instantly picture "Nude Descending A Staircase" when the next two words hanging at the end of the line are "The legs" -- when those legs are not the real legs climbing the stairs... (and yet, come to think of it, what are the real legs...)
to be literal for a moment, if i am reading correctly, she's climbing out of a pool and dripping her prints onto the floor as she steps, but then you move into the legs, for a bit, and it seems as though her legs, in physically keeping together, are constantly climbing themselves. the reflection in the pool below becomes even more beautiful because of all the dripping imagery, so as the image becomes clearer in a literal way, i also begin to allow myself to see more... to see a slow dripping out of the pool and back in again (in the form of legs, and then drops of water)... a slow separation of body from water, and teh water sticking close to the legs, falling to the water below, to the ground, to the air... and then the legs return to the water, but also to the sky, and also beyond both in merging the two separate worlds...
you know, when i started this post i had thought that this is only a still life if it is a still life in the way duchamp's beauty is-- a still life through time-- but as i write down and track my experience of the piece i realize it is a still life, it is just a still life like van gogh would have it, one that moves.
Nude Descending the Stairs
I love that painting, it's a perfect compliment to Om's poem! It reminds me of a theatre, which is a living art that relies on movement and the spaces between to be what it is. The motion adds that theatrical feeling of beginning at one point and ending at another which I find very satisfying. Something about having some direction, of pointing beyond the what's given, maybe that's what's so pleasing to me about this kind of art. Theatre attempts to ride the tension of narrative, which can only be communicated through some sort of "action" (hence the thing an actor does) through space/time. Aristotle so clearly explains "A beginning is that which does not itself follow anything by causal necessity, but after which something naturally is or comes to be. An end, on the contrary, is that which itself naturally follows some other thing, either by necessity, or as a rule, but has nothing following it. A middle is that which follows something as some other thing follows it." Un-poetic Poetics.
BENDING WITH OUBENNING AND JAMES
What beautiful complementary posts to give my poem an intricacy and delicacy in the study of the aesthetics of motion. I like Oubenning's theatrical allusion of riding “the tension of narrative;” and though there’s no real narrative here, per se, it most definitely applies. I love tension! Tension and stretching come from intendere, Latin for stretching. Intention also comes from this root, and means orienting of consciousness to the field of perception. Intention is also equivalent to karma (a Sanskrit word meaning “action”), which is exquisitely rendered in the Buddhist philosopher Nagarjuna’s standard formulation on dependent origination:
“when this is present, that comes to be; from the arising of this, that arises. When this is absent, that comes to be; on the cessation of this, that ceases.”
This, of course, contradicts Aristotle’s formulation on beginnings: "A beginning is that which does not itself follow anything by causal necessity…”. Oh well :) but the point I hear is less about strict metaphysics then the simple beauty of the natural flow of things, whether it be bodies or feelings or ideas. The dialogical essence of this blog is about flow and the intimacy of flow, the breaking through the tensions of difference to create new meanings and beginnings and the sweetness that comes from understanding. It’s a kind of stimulation which is nothing less than love, because of the joy it engenders.
And James’ post is the most articulate and refreshing on the process of understanding:
“i often have to re-read in several different ways in order for all the language's movement and imagery to become clear… [so that] when i am comfortable with the literal imagery, i become more comfortable with that feeling, that sort of intuition, language-less…. i have to have a crystal clear understanding of the language in order to no longer need to have a crystal clear experience of the poem... . i use language to move beyond it; i make sense of the language of the poem thinking it will make sense of the poem, and it does, but in this very peculiar way: what i have is a clear feeling of the poem birthed out of that clear (intellectual) understanding of the language.”
What is striking here is not only the honoring of the more abstract language and feelings, and the need to integrate both; but, that there is actually a process of doing just that. In a previous post, Emily and James were describing how they approach let’s say a poem from ostensibly opposite sides of the experience, the sensory/intuitive versus logical analysis, respectively (though both have a deep intuition). A question I would like to ask is whether, what we would call language poems or poems that utilize more philosophical or abstract language, could be understood when approached from the more sensory/emotional? Or does it need to? And what about the discomfort when hitting up against this type of poem/text? Is it worth the struggle? It seems that we have as many different kinds of poems as dispositions, a fruit salad of poem. Similar to religion, no?
Abstract Poetry/Music
The same quotes as Om - “i often have to re-read in several different ways in order for all the language's movement and imagery to become clear… [so that] when i am comfortable with the literal imagery, i become more comfortable with that feeling, that sort of intuition, language-less…. i have to have a crystal clear understanding of the language in order to no longer need to have a crystal clear experience of the poem... . i use language to move beyond it; i make sense of the language of the poem thinking it will make sense of the poem, and it does, but in this very peculiar way: what i have is a clear feeling of the poem birthed out of that clear (intellectual) understanding of the language.”
Thanks James: with this paragraph you've given me the best lesson in reading poetry I've ever had! Just like that something clicked in my head.
Om's words: "A question I would like to ask is whether, what we would call language poems or poems that utilize more philosophical or abstract language, could be understood when approached from the more sensory/emotional?"
To answer your question I'll substitute "music" for "poems". It is a language I am more well versed in and I see a correlation between how to deconstruct/understand the two mediums. I am reminded of a concert I went to about two weeks ago, a Danish band came through town and played some really progressively trippy Jazz - completely non-chordal, the guitarist offering quirky, unpredictable harmonies underneath the sax lines, giving the band this really hollow sound. The drummer flashed around his set, creating sounds like the movement of an insect's legs. The bassist really dug in.
Check them out here:www.solborg.dk or myspace.com/marksolborg. I love the name of the new album, 1+1+1+1" - it really sums up the individualistic yet connected nature of the group.
I had a really hard time listening to it - I'm a melody-headed kind of a guy, and their harmonically free approach felt to me like scratching every inch BUT the mosquito bite! I found I had to approach the music almost purely intellectually, which proved to be an experiment in sympathetic understanding. I'm a jazz guitarist and I play mostly French style Gypsy Jazz, which is very lush harmonically (like an accessible, moving poem) and I was trying hard to understand why the guitarist would make these wonderfully spasmatic, odd choices (like an abstract poem). I found it worth it exhert all of this energy in trying to understand, because it was clear the author was feeling his music, I think the act of reaching will provide a lesson no matter what the subject is. We've all done this with the photographs on this site.
THE SOUND OF ONE HAND ERIC CLAPTON
Koan this, Ouben Reuben, what a cool post! I love that you brought music into this mix: “and I was trying hard to understand why the guitarist would make these wonderfully spasmatic, odd choices (like an abstract poem). I found it worth it to exert all of this energy in trying to understand, because it was clear the author was feeling his music, I think the act of reaching will provide a lesson no matter what the subject is.”
“The author was feeling his music:” this I think is the key and your reaching out into this intersubjective space seeking the translatability of these different modes and levels of being and ways of knowing to create intimacy through understanding and ultimately transcending the very languages used to find the voice we all have and need recognized, is what it’s all about. It’s the Hokey- Pokey of Being or whiffle ball.
whiffle ball at the lake
It whistled as I whiffled it back 15 years to the lake's edge
when I last crooned those balls with a swing
'til they waffled like speech whizzing
like a fly in a suck
sound of swat like bee-bop at the Three Deuces
and Mingus Pithecanthropus Erectus whetting Eric's front line burn
Wednesday nights at prayer meetings and Ervin and Curson preachin' it
in atonal splatterings of benediction like ants racing around their queen
dharma spread thin like toast in the emptiness of form ascending until sky is buried deep in cheers
till human voices wake us
I realized this morning, when I was lonely and bored and wondering whether the stress I'm going through is worth it, that part of why I've been gone is that everyone here is lavishly and generously creative, and I am stuck cramming papers and translations into spare seconds, wishing with every inch of my being that I had time to devote to my real work. Then it dawned on me that you are all under the same stresses and subject to the same loneliness and perhaps this was why I was pulling away. And then I actually logged in and read through the posts I've missed and realized that I love being here, that this is a place where I somehow feel safe despite literally knowing no one. That this is a place very close to home.
I loved your poem, Om. I close my eyes and see some strange hybrid of the crane-on-Barbie-legs character from Toy Story, the idealized, sexualized American idea of the female form, and Botticelli's "The Birth of Venus," with her hair flowing across her body. I imagine her pulling herself out of the ocean at dawn.
For some reason, this in turn reminded me of my favorite of all the Little Bear books, Father Bear Comes Home. In one of the stories, Little Bear convinces himself that his father will bring him back a mermaid from his long trip on the ocean. He tells his friends, who are also convinced. And when Father Bear returns, they await him in breathless wonder, wanting to see the mermaid he has brought with him.
"We came to see the mermaid," said Hen.
"Her hair is blue and green," said Duck.
"Her eyes are silver like the moon," said Cat.
"And she is very pretty," said Hen.
"How nice!" said Father Bear. "Where is she?"
"You have her," said Hen and Duck and Cat.
"Oh?" said Father Bear. He looked at Little Bear.
"No mermaid?" asked Little Bear? "No little mermaid?"
"No," said Father Bear, "no little mermaid."
"Well!" said Hen.
"My!" said Duck.
"Really!" said Cat.
They all looked at Little Bear.
"But I said maybe," said Little Bear. "I did say maybe."
"Come, now," said Father Bear. "See what I have for all of you. Sea shells. You can hear the ocean in them. And maybe you can hear the mermaids, too. Maybe."
I also loved your responses, James and Oubenning (hi!). Because I find that, like with the above, I become very caught up in free-associating from a poem on to things around it, things it reminds me of, emotions it invokes in me, thinks it makes me want or need. It's wonderful to see you all so willing to break away from the lessons on reading and analyzing that are hammered into your brain, go out on an emotional limb, and then come back to use the tools in those first lessons to address something new. Anyway, I'm starting to ramble (and not starting dinner, which will be bad in an hour when my stomach tries to eat itself), so: thank you. It was a lovely read.
Dear Carmen
I so love your voice and your bright, inquisitive presence. Welcome back. I too pull away, too frequently perhaps, but your return makes me feel more at home again. Your story about the bears free associated me back to the "voice" of the ocean this past summer, and all the mermaids I met there. Maybe i sent you this once before, but anyways:
Thought Upon Seeing The Weather:
How up the hill from out the bay comes wind
breaking wild in waves against windows,
gnarling branches in swirls; how the wind
and the sea are partners in one music; that
in the overcast clarity of light
the open scent of blown air gusts risings
and fallings, arrivals and departures,
like the jubilant breath of the sea; and you
would remember, lying last night in your bed
beneath the open screened in windows,
exhalation's airy whistle, the shiiish
of inspire, how up the hill from out
the bay, the sea and the wind were of one
wet voice, stinging your face with speedy drops
Is, just is.
It is
It is
What it is
The way it is.
It is,
and was
Right here
where we are
wherever we go.
It is.
Prayer
Whatever happens. Whatever
what is is is what
I want. Only that. But that.
-Galway Kinnell
IT IS
It is
and it is not
and therefore
it is
-- Wallace Stevens
Sit.
Is it?
Hi Carmen!
Your post is really refreshing. I like how you summed up the analytic process we were talking about:
"It's wonderful to see you all so willing to break away from the lessons on reading and analyzing that are hammered into your brain, go out on an emotional limb, and then come back to use the tools in those first lessons to address something new."
I just reapplied to Columbia college in Chicago because I want a more stimulating environment musically; It's too easy to work as a musician here, and too hard to find a concert where I go home and say "WOW", have my life thrown upside down, consider quitting the arts and getting a secreterial job, than getting over that initial hump of hopelessness to be inspired to reach for greatness. The application required me to write about the role of risk taking in art and I think what we've discussed definately applies.
And I'm so happy to agree completely to this - "...and then I actually logged in and read through the posts I've missed and realized that I love being here, that this is a place where I somehow feel safe despite literally knowing no one. That this is a place very close to home." It's the home in my home I come home to after a late night of working at another home where they pay me to make things feel more like home.
CARMEN CAN U HEAR ME? EMILY CAN U HEAR ME? :)
has anyone seen Carmen and Emily lately? oh yeah, and Noah, i remember him, he probably went out to get more food for the barbeque. Carmen, please send another poem. thanks.
Have you seen?
I haven't seen Emily lately. When I do, I'll tell her to come back. I believe she is watching the rain drop against the window and reading Oliver Sack's new book. Sometimes, she turns very inward and just feels, absent of words. She has to sit for a long time before she can respond to the intensity of words, here, in this place, where words rise so high that she must climb a ladder to reach them, or wait until they settled to the ground so that she
doesn't have to constantly battle her fear of heights.
Carmen has been swallowed
by a translation of Ælfric's St. Edmund. She'll be back as soon as she gets all her hwæts in order. ;)
But do not worry! She is still reading!
MELANCHOLIA
Melancholia
She says, Morning never should have risen
out of sleep
the winter aconites never would have opened
the mustard daffodils would have remained deep
beneath the frosted mounds of dirt
She says, Morning never should have stretched
her slight arms
around the window that framed the dull
hovering moonlight
Winters are gulls that float in empty day
She says, Morning never should have driven the snow
away with her grin
her bosom rays forcing things to grow
forcing the pulsing fields to push
deep beneath their skin
Do I know what you are saying
or am I inventing a meaning that suits me?
Om, your poem Melancholia, speaks to me of many mornings when I feel yanked from sleep, yanked from the peace of not seeing and not knowing Morning forces me back to the living when I am not sure that is where I want to be. The light of day is an assault.
Do I take from your poem what you intended? I wonder if my way of entering into a poem is limited because I search for similarities between what the poet experiences and what I experience. I look for a moment of shared truths. Even when the poet shows me something new, opens a door for me, it often feels like, "Yes. I must have known this all along."
OH SARDONIC ME: RESPONSE TO EMILY
"Sardonic-- Cynically mocking, from the Greek, Sardonios, a Sardinian plant which when eaten was supposed to produce convulsive laughter ending in death." Is this not hilarious?
Emily , your reading is perfect, the being forced into living and the light of day assaultive to the depression has its grip on your heart. But the poem also has a bit of a twist in that irony once again is rearing its head as concealed meaning. In the ironic, real meaning is concealed. Irony (from the Greek eiron (dissembler) denotes that the appearance of things differs from their reality, whether in terms of meaning, situation, or action. That is, it is ironic when there is a difference between what is spoken and what is meant, what is thought about a situation and what is actually the case; or what is intended by actions and what is their actual outcome. In the poem, melancholy, or depression is personified and protesting what it deeply desires, the freedom to overcome ultimate absurdity and meaninglessness in order to love. But, it first has to open itself to the reparative ministrations of Mother Nature, whose “bosom rays” are saying, “Let me love you, let go of your rage.”
THEORY OF A POEM
Theory of a Poem
The way I see it, a poem has to hurt. If it’s a good poem, it really hurts. If it’s a great poem, it’s a killer, a crucifixation, the end. You will not go gently unto that good night. You will go down, and go down hard. And you won’t come up again. I have been crucified many a time, and now my mouth is compost, slow-heating from the gut. And I have learned that the poem, like death, redeems the sufferer, for to suffer is to hurt, and to hurt is to resurrect all that is sacred. Frost still really hurts. He continues to feed the pile of wood in my gut that, like I said, still burns, slow and smokeless. James Wright hurts; Hart Crane hurts; Rilke hurts really, really bad. Rilke hurts the most; his genius is dark, and his darkness makes me molt, especially after a slow burn. As for Pound, I have no fucking clue what he is saying, but I hurt so bad when I ride his polyphonic waves and images. Dante hurts so bad I named my truck after his beloved, drove it over a cliff, threw myself into a flame, sailed to Florence, and never came back. I’m still huddled low at San Miniato like an altar, like a Fra Angelico. Nor did I come back to earth when I climbed Frost’s Birches. Whitman, the perversion that he is, flayed me, gorged my innards, then drank me into polymorphous intoxication; oh, ex stasis, how delicious death could be. Wordsworth lulled me into a philosophic death, and like a good teacher, seduced me out of my prison house of day. In 1990 I was sandwiched between Aiken and cummings; I became rabid and frothed at the mouth for months until finally I swallowed Faust again to put myself into more misery. With Octavio Paz I became psychotic and needed some Frost to pull me back into where I’ll never know. Not too long ago I read a Kinnell poem; and then another, and another. I fell so hard, after almost fifteen years I picked up a pen. I’m down again.
Phantom 簋
Phantom 簋
with a broom.
a-standing on a feather lightly,
corridor 到come corridor
Somewhere between the 五th and 六th floors of my building
where my chamber lay, safe安 from your wisdom
but a medium for your vengeance.
I bear a sack of guilt, like a bag heavy with a few lethargic buzzards caught idling,
then swarming,
then suddenly a flash - for you have gone.
It's because I have refused to see you any longer,
your solemnly falling expression
intolerable to lift, to life, to proverbial or literal upward motion -
You are here so I ask - How far was the travel, Phantom 簋
from Guizhou 贵州, dirtier than our BeiJing 北京
so much so we are wishing God, a God, would sweep away the foggy haze of polluted consciousness
you can see like so much pulled lint from a warm piece of clothing.
Can I watch you sweep, Phantom 簋? Will you disappear?
Theory of a Poem
When I read poetry it does I do not feel hurt. I feel validated, as if there is someone out there, saying to me, I know feelings, I know the pain, I know the horror, I know the joy.
The poet and the reader confirm each other's lives. There is understanding. There is compassion.
When I don't feel the connection, I feel lonely.
question
hey Emily, i've got a quick question. when you say, at the end of your response, that, "When I don't feel the connection, I feel lonely," are you relating this back to the first sentence: that when you read poetry you do not feel hurt?
what i mean to say is, are you saying that a poem hurting would mean that there is no connection? that the experience of a poem is painful when (and only when) you are unable to connect with it?
i'm not sure if this is what you are saying, or if it might be something else, so hopefully you can help me out. this will definitely add a new dimension to my reading of Om's "Theory Of A Poem." thanks!
RESPONSE TO EMILY: IT HURTS SO GOOD
Emily, as always, thank you for sharing, it makes it all worth it, really. When I speak of "hurt" in the poem, I'm being ironic in a hopefully comedic way, as if to say, "God, this feels so good, it hurts." I'm imploding in an altered state of consciousness, foisting myself into the night of frenzied love.
When I was a kid, after a night of going out, my friends and I would go to a diner and get real silly. I would laugh so hard and cry; it hurt so much I couldn't breathe. A good laugh hurts, a great poem really hurts.
I get it
Om, I understand.
I guess to further explain- when I connect, I feel so much love, and the need to express it, that I am full of pain for what can not be said.
response to question by James
Yes, I am saying that a poem is painful when I can't find the connection or a place where I can find common ground with the poet. A poem or a person can speak to me directly of the most painful things and I feel liberated, validated because we ( the poem and I have come to the same understanding).
Of Poems, Loved Ones and Memories
After much encouragement from OM to contribute to this site and failing to find the right words, I remembered this song from the Cure, titled Pictures of You. It strikes me in so many ways because it sings about memories of loved ones and words never said. It reminds me of how I hold onto the memories of my dead brother from long ago. And those memories are almost pictures now because I hold them so tightly in the fear that if I let them go he will fade from me and cease to be. Yet I realize that in my struggle to preserve him I have lost the feeling of him. But that is also because when he passed away I was nine and did not have the language and awareness to create a more meaningful composite of him of words and feelings. So he exists in my mind as this incomplete person I never really knew, and I struggle with the guilt of all the things I didn’t say to him and how I never got to know so many parts of him. All I am left with are the pictures in my head. Yet I know his memories will fade and the only thing left of him will be feelings.
I know this song/poem has many more meanings, but this is how I interact with it right now, even though they will change and keep evolving moment to moment.
Anyway, here are the lyrics below:
I've been looking so long at these pictures of you
That I almost believe that they're real
I've been living so long with my pictures of you
That I almost believe that the pictures are all i can feel
Remembering you standing quiet in the rain
As I ran to your heart to be near
And we kissed as the sky fell in holding you close
How I always held close in your fear
Remembering you running soft through the night
You were bigger and brighter and wider than snow
And screamed at the make-believe screamed at the sky
And you finally found all your courage to let it all go
Remembering you fallen into my arms
Crying for the death of your heart
You were stone white so delicate lost in the cold
You were always so lost in the dark
Remembering you how you used to be
Slow drowned you were angels
So much more than everything oh
Hold for the last time then slip away quietly
Open my eyes but I never see anything
If only I had thought of the right words
I could have hold on to your heart
If only I'd thought of the right words
I wouldn't be breaking apart
All my pictures of you
Looking So long at these pictures of you
But I never hold on to your heart
Looking so long for the words to be true
But always just breaking apart my pictures of you
There was nothing in the world that i ever wanted more
Than to feel you deep in my heart
There was nothing in the world that i ever wanted more
Than to never feel the breaking apart all my pictures of you
Response to Nico
Nico,
I feel very inarticulate today, but I wanted to greet you and say hello. When I was reading your post, I saw myself. Your words are my words.
I was ten years old when my sister died. For the longest time I tried to keep her alive, not just for me, but for my parents as well. I held on to her old stuffed animal for years, walking around the block with it under my shirt.
I tried to keep her alive in the only way I knew how. I didn't want to live ( and yet, I did, more than anything). In my effort to hold on, I did so much damage to myself. Yet, I couldn't let go any sooner that I did.
I started thinking about my own death and what I wanted to say to the people I loved. I realized that I would say, "Promise me you will get on living. Live for both of us. See things, do things, feel things for the two of us. Feel the grief when it arrives and let it pass through you. Accept the moments of joy.
I have this image that life is like a big, beautiful quilt. There are holes in the fabric that represent loss. I don't patch the tears. I just build around them.
Thank you for sharing yourself.
the quilt that is life
"I have this image that life is like a big, beautiful quilt. There are holes in the fabric that represent loss. I don't patch the tears. I just build around them."
Those are such powerful sentences. Thank you for sharing your experience. Surviving through life while loved ones pass away feels like surviving this great, big battle every day, with inevitable casualties and sadness so deep we have no choice but "build around" it. It is hard enough for adults to experience loss, but for a child, it is beyond capacity because death is this impenetrable void that remains empty. And if as a child you didn't master it, you sure as hell are going to try to master it later in life by going back and repetitively going over memories and meanings in the effort of hopefully reconstructing the past of that person. But like OM says, memories are distorted, full of fantasies and projections. My greatest obsession with my brother is figuring out who he was. I know this is folly because by trying to figure him out I am also limiting him. It is a conundrum, an illusion, and eventually I will have to use my imagination to "build around" him so I can move on and breathe feeling into the memories.
NICOING AROUND THE CORNER OF MEMORY
all of our memories are partial memories mixed with fantasies and projections. the accuracy of our memories doesn't matter because it's not about your brother or my brother or Emily's sister, it's about you, me and Emily. my memories of my brother are distorted but what's preserved are the feelings of tenderness, which by its nature is reparative and restorative. that's why we all have to overcome the muteness of grief and speak out. it's not about precision, it's about decision, the decision to live and relate and connect and be messy because intimacy is messy. we're all fictive, and that's beautiful.
Coming Home
I just got home (at 7:30 in the morning), coming from a cab who tried to double the price and rip me off... I said "Cao ni ma!" (fuck your mother) paid the correct fair, and got out of there... I felt terribly guilty. Why is it that we constantly remind eachother of hopelessness? Of disconnection? I stood in the subway car, absolutely stuffed with people, inches from the door, and about a foot from the wall of the subterranean tunnel flying by. For a moment, fear struck me - that the door might fly open and i might fall forward, grated against the stone walls. Then I briefly realized something sensible and beautiful - if that door did indeed recklessly swing open, someone would probably grab the neck of my jacket! That makes so much sense. And yet it's nothign more than a fantasy.
OuBenNing, I have a similar fantasy
except in mine, I am the someone grabbing the neck of your jacket.
and also, your not really about to fall off the train, but you are on the brink of despair, staring into the abyss of loneliness, and then you see me, looking at you, and we smile to each other in recognition.
Oh, and your also a woman.
Do you ever see that train barreling into the station and think about what it would feel like to jump in front of it--like there is some mysterious pull--
or sometimes, when I have been climbing in the mountains and leaned out over 3000 feet of air, or stared down into these yawning blue crevasses--bottomless: its the same feeling--actually far more awesome--but similar nonetheless...
Alpines and A trains
This is so gorgeous - "and also, your not really about to fall off the train, but you are on the brink of despair, staring into the abyss of loneliness, and then you see me, looking at you, and we smile to each other in recognition." And at your blue crevaces, you are not just staring down a cool-frightening-awesome pit, but you are staring into the dark unknown of your self-depth. Two beautifully complementing metaphors for depth and despair! I can almost smell the crisp, cold air of a snow covered enlightenment, and the particulated stench of the madly despairing subway .
“NO CAO NI MA,” SAID FREUD
there was a psychoanalyst named freud
whose theories only few had employed
until sex became his game
and id was his claim
now freud we could no longer avoid
freud is the man of desire
to get him would only require
one foot in one's id
the other under lid
it's called repression, and it control's one's fire.
now i think that freud had one trick
and he loved getting into the thick
of society's taboos
called the histrionic blues
it's what made this austrian so slick.
his ploy was to loosen the hold
of repression, a move very bold
but bold was his will
his mind wouldn't sit still
until his claim turned his pockets to gold.
actually, he had another scheme
he would market the interpretation of dreams
it had a simple proposition
that dreams reveal mind's condition
because mind is never what it seems.
okay, enough of this frivolous freud
i'm already feeling annoyed
but that's just my oedipal
seeking my own pedestal
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