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This is very powerful, Anya. The words you use are heavy with the imagery of hope and desperation. Anxiety is a tricky thing. Like you say, "You are the reason for my success, the reason I have persevered. Yet even now, with my mind and body at rest and the days work long over, I feel you in the depth of my soul, feel your darkness, your ever-present claws embedded violently into stomach." The anxiety of failure can keep us going and make us succeed. However, it takes the taste of victory away from the accomplishment. I wonder if all anxiety is created equal?

I mean what's at the bottom of the anxiety?

Maybe, Anya, this is what you are trying to get at? Or maybe I am just projecting my own question into your prose?

Caterina, this is such a beautiful story you are sharing with us, thank you! I find it so evocative in so many different ways, so I want to sit with it for some time and allow myself to feel with it. But with respect to your question about the movie, Y Tu Mama Tambien--I saw it many years ago but as I remember it tells the story of two 20 year old (maybe even a little younger, can't remember) life long friends who go on a road trip through Mexico. I think it is some sort of transitional summer in their lives. Somehow, they encounter a beautiful and sensuous older women, whom they persuade to join them by telling her they are heading to a secluded and secret beach: A sort of mystical fantasy place of beauty and freedom. So the three of them wind up going on this adventure and I can't remember all the specifics but their relationship turns sexual very quickly. I think at some point, the woman winds up getting attached to one of the boys, which leads to some bitter jealousy between the friends. What I remember most is a scene near the end where there is a threesome situation, but it is really the two friends making love to each other.

Because it is told from the perspective of the young men, I think it has a very different feeling than your story. Their's is a "coming of age" adventure. But I find the intimacy of what you are describing so moving.

Come on Caterina, tell the truth, this is merely your clever way of avoiding work (LOL!!!)

I imagine you the post-modern Mrs. Robinson, or perhaps the fairy God(dess) Mother waving her wand(er) over the hearts of young men with a secret potion of love in the form of language dust and wander lust. I see you reformulating the internecine ties of men by drawing a virtuous circle around the triangle of competition. Aside from mixing up the socks, there is a kind of solstice in this geometry of love, as the boys play and you, the yogini sun, sit silent and in the stillness of declination. These two earths of young men living so vitally in their bodies and, if like most men, conditioned to compare and compete with each other in such a way as to be either oriented directly towards (idealizing) or away (hating) from the object of woman, potentially drift off and away (from themselves) towards the northernmost or southernmost extremes of love. The question is as it always is, irrespective of what path we choose to practice, can mind reveal itself? Can we love?

wow.

well, sheesh, Caterina, i'm glad i've come back in time to catch this post. it knocked me out. especially the sweetness of your difficulty getting some of it out, the tenderness and shyness, among all the openness and confidence... this is a veritable orgy of feelings ;)

(i couldn't resist.)

and then there's all that stuff about sex that just makes me hold my breath because i still feel so far from that world... so there's my shyness, too. and, oh, all kinds of fears... everyone's fears all wrapped up together, and all shaking... humming...

but most of all, somehow, i responded to this: "But it kind of feels nice to hurt like this because I haven't felt this way in a while..." i think because i've been pondering this sort of thing recently quite a bit.

i just pointed (in my previous post) to a loss that had me feeling humiliated; and hurt, too... and the thing that scares me is that when i act cool, like i've got it all under control, i deny that hurt... but if i wasn't hurting after losing something precious, i'd find that quite suspect! sure, some of the hurt (being offended, the resentment, the acting cool) is there because of attachment... but of course i'm attached! i'm glad i'm attached-- better than being detached! and the hurt... well that's where the gold is, isn't it? not just there, it's in the joy, too, but now that there's the hurt: well, there's gold there! almost like st. lawrence's beggars...

i also like that stuff about being the grown-up. i sometimes throw fits because i am resentful since i feel like i've always been made to be the grown-up, even with grown-ups (even when i was much younger!) i want to be a child, sometimes, but i don't often get to be a child in the way i feel i need, which isn't to throw fits or to make stupid decisions or to be irresponsible... it's just to be cared for, nurtured. and sometimes when i have the opportunity i don't take it (for shame ;)

being the grown-up, or at least what that has come to mean to me, feels really good (namely, being responsible (responsible to and for the relationship and the other)); it's just when that feels like it is coming at the cost of my own needs being met... then it feels like burden. and sometimes, then, i feel taken advantage of, squashed, ignored, dismissed. and, you know, that feels humiliating.

anyway-- these were all just expressions of mine inspired by your post, so thank you for the inspiration. and thanks for sharing. you've made a fine and welcome offering.

True enough, Anya. That's why there is also the judgment string that is so interesting. A little longer to read but worth it. And the MLK string too fits into it on a broader scope!

Anya, I loved your post and that you felt comfortable enough asserting your perspective and feelings. There are a couple of statements you made that felt “provocative” to me (and, I have to admit, I love provocation :) You said, “I found Caterina’s story provocative. I am unsure as to whether this was her intent, but it was the inevitable result. The fact of the matter is that, though it may not be right, three-ways and younger male-older female relationships are considered cultural taboos.”

Questions: Why was Caterina’s story provocative to you? Also, there are many situations that have been and still are considered “cultural taboos.” Interracial relationships, gay relationships, certain sexual acts, African Americans sitting in the front of a bus all have been considered “cultural taboos.” What do you think about the arbitrary legal and cultural sanctioning of rules and roles and behaviors that serve one group’s (who happen to be in power) agenda?

One more: “You can say that this is a story of relationships and growth all you want, but it is still a sex story.” Honestly, I don’t know what a “sex story” is. Could you share with us what this means? I know, historically, some of the greatest world literature was, at some point in time, considered “sex stories” and banned. James Joyce, DH Lawrence and Vladimir Nabokov come to mind.

As you can see, I’m admittedly being a little provocative :) not to be mean, I promise, but to stimulate a discussion, because your opinions are important to all of us.

"...how did the sexual story of Caterina focus on what was really important to the encounter and the issues that would naturally arise from that encounter for both herself and the two friends."

I actually think Caterina not only addressed but focused on these issues, that is, "what was really important to the encounter." Deep teachings, I suspect, out of the spontaneity and openness of mindfulness and awareness (I speak more about this in my last post, `THREE, TWO, ONE, IT DOESN'T MATTER'. However, this is Caterina's practice and process she can better describe, and not her lovers'.

And what about her lovers, about their experiences? You describe them as "two young boys" which made me laugh. They're 20 years old! Young, yes, but when I was 20 I was already out of my house, running my own business and two years away from marriage. I also had a lot of sex under my belt (and a lot of belts to my head!).

And, yes, there's "a potential mine field," for sure, but when isn't there a potential mine field when one stretches and pushes up against conventionality?

"The fact of the sex was not a problem at all, but did the detail of it add to the story?"

It absolutely added to the story and-- I hope Anya is watching-- in very significant ways. Why? Because sex is an intense, (unconsciously or consciously)intimate experience, even when it's not. It breaks through personal barriers and boundaries in such a way as to leave one vulnerable. But, that vulnerability is a good thing, like the inevitability of loss and death, because it provides the opportunity for growth, even if it hurts. What was clearly implied, if not explicitly stated, was the degree and extent of the lovers' conversations, which were intimate and mind, eye and heart opening for the young men.

As far as Caterina the teacher, it was a position she clearly couldn't avoid and I think that's the point. She has much more experience on a number of levels, and she used that experience to guide her lovers across the universe of intimacy, sexual and otherwise.

As you beautifully say, "It is not easy to move from that role to something else - one has to survive the imbalance...". This is absolutely true, and from Caterina's last post, this is exactly where she herself is struggling. What a great struggle! As her re-entry back into earth's atmosphere concludes, she will seek again deep within her what attachment means. What is that balance of intimacy? What is love? What is self-creation?

"And it is just a truth about me that sexual experiences are so very personal and private between me and my lover that I feel I must be very careful before I share in any detail what it was about."

Here too is another wonderful point. A long-term romantic relationship cannot be compared to what feels more like trysts or romps or experimentation. And, as you also shared, Caterina gave us all opportunities to explore ourselves and each other more deeply, which is ultimately what intimacy and our wonderful little community is all about.

Oh, I almost forgot, you asked, "It is possible to make a judgment about someone's actions but still not judge the person?"

This is such a great question, I hope everyone joins in. We are always making judgments, that is, attempting to evaluate the reliability of our perceptions and conceptions and how they match against the world surround. But, what we have to be careful about is how our biases, distortions and delusions influence our judgments. This is why self-awareness is so critical in the world of relationship. We need to approach relationship first and foremost with a question, not an opinion, and then allow our opinions to flow out of the questions as the questions themselves pare down the ambiguous space between.

Questioning presupposes the capacity and freedom of finding by revealing that which is hidden in ourselves, the unconscious pull toward complacency which blocks us from knowing itself.

The bridge between what is hidden and what is known is the question. And I would even go so far as to say that questioning is the birth of the spiritual. If we read Caterina's posts closely, for example, what we will find is a series of questions, and those questions, together, compose her story.

Your post reminded me of so many missed opportunities, so many mixed messages, so many times in my past that I fled from someone who may have been someone I wanted to meet..  There were other times when I wanted more from someone who wanted less, when I read the signals upside down. I still remember when Ed Walker, a senior in high school - when I was a junior, took me out on a date.  He kissed me goodnight with such attention and deep passion that I went in the house and knew that I would never go out with him again.  Flight.

 The most romantic moments in my life have been, and still are, when someone is looking at me, looking at me in a way that I feel my beauty that exists below my skin and when I look at someone's eye's and just can feel how much love there is beneath the surface.

Of course there were times, and still, are, when someone looks at me like that and I think, "What an Idiot with bad eyesight."

But that's a whole new story about physical self hatred. 

I can relate to this statement, especially this week.

"I felt that her anger (which was never directed at me, but at others) was just poison to my soul."

I am also struggling with this week with two people in my life. Two people that I do not have the ability to remove or separate myself from.  So I ask you and everyone. How do you separate yourself from other people's anger and judgment and not let it poison your own soul? 

I start off with good intentions and say to myself, this is their projections. I even think I'll just listen and let them spill it all out, but it never seems to end, the more they vent the more passionate and powerful the anger and judgment of others.  After hours of persistence I feel so drained.  They are like a vortex and all of your energy gets sucked right out of you.

"So, how, can my compassion for her situation be of use or value to her when the very thing she needs I am not willing to give?   What good is the compassion in my heart if I don’t put it into some kind of action?"

"Catherina’s post made me think about this.  When does one act on feelings and impulses and, when does one say this is not a risk worth taking?   One can say every experience we have is a learning experience and therefore we must take the risk or stagnate in our lives. But it is easy to fall into a catch 22 where we can justify anything because we can learn from it."

Emily, what I love about these questions is the depth from which they emerge, a true seeking to understand.  But, then again, this is true for all your posts.

I see how you made the connection between you and Caterina, with regard to your neighbor.  The first thing that comes to my mind is how you are defining compassion.  I see compassion as the desire to alleviate suffering, which does not necessarily directly attempt to take away another's pain.  Altruism without true compassion is what Gehlek Rinpoche calls "idiot compassion."  But, what is true compassion?  I would say that it requires a deep understanding of your motives and actions within the context of  the ultimate nature of reality, which is empty of inherent existence (interconnectedness). 

In the case of your neighbor, I find myself talking to her openly and honestly about her anger and how it doesn't feel healthy for me.  If I have no anger towards her, there's a minimal chance that she will attack me, because my message will not be obscured by my own afflictions.  Calm and poise (equanimity) are powerful when confronting someone.  It sounds as if this woman needs help and I would encourage her to get it. Now, that's compassion, because I am giving her an opportunity to look into her pain, see how it leaves her isolated, and forces her to take responsibility for it.  If she fails to embrace my words and intention, that's okay too, because I realize that this is her karma and I need to respect it. 

The reason I decide to take this "risk" is because this woman has, for a good reason, entered into my lifespace, in the peculiar way she has.  I will look at it (as I attempt to do with everyone and thing in my perceptual field), as a mirror, and as an opportunity to understand my own afflictions, perhaps being an accommodator, for example.

"But it is easy to fall into a catch 22 where we can justify anything because we can learn from it."

This is my favorite observation, Emily.  You are correct here, but only if we are missing the first type of judgment that I mentioned in TO JUDGE OR NOT TO JUDGE, THAT IS THE NICO.  (Ah, the link works!!!! :)  We need to know our motivation for our actions, and that requires the discernment and wisdom of self-awareness.  The question we must ask before taking action is: "Is this acting out or coming from true compassion?"  If I will hurt myself or others in such a way as to cause them undo suffering,  I must look deeper and further before I make my decision to act.   Indeed, it's not always clear and there are risks, but all we can do is  love our imperfect minds and  ask for  love and protection from the deepest levels of our consciousness:  Om mani padme hum.

PS. Megan, I am not a Buddhist, but the way I understand this mantra (mantra means "mind protection"), om mani padme hum,  is this:

Despite the pain and isolation of life, I am embodiment seeking the divine (OM), the jewel of compassion (MANI) and the lotus of wisdom (PADME), together cradled in the integration of mind (HUM) sending out rays of love to the whole universe.  

When you investigate very closely (and trust your teachers), you'll find that there is no real separation between you and the universe.  If this is in fact true, then sending out rays of love (through meditation practice and visualization) is the same as, not only taking in rays of love, but becoming the clear light of love.   In the realization of this light, there is no suffering, no pain

Tibetan Buddhists believe that saying the mantra aloud or silently to oneself, invokes the powerful benevolent attention and blessings of Chenrezig, the embodiment of compassion. Viewing the written form of the mantra is said to have the same effect.

"I had no idea that I would become so attached to people who I hardly know."

And even the small handful of people on here who I do know from the physical world--still I experience a totally new discovery of their voice.  In any case, great to have you back!  Keep those poems coming :)

"So I have been thinking about Caterina and her great openness and willingness to take risks with her two young friends,   Perhaps they were not in a place where they understood the nature of the relationship and what there was to learn."

Emily, I think you've made a wonderful point here, and I tend to agree with it.  At the same time, as I'm reading your post, I am hearing that we need to be cautious, discerning and responsible when calling ourselves "teacher."   Teacher, like parent,  is more than a role; it is a responsibility and serious in nature.   I personally feel  that  my most  significant and crucial (and, indeed, intimate) relationships were those I have had with my teachers.   To be a teacher is a privilege and is therefore sacred.  In this way, parent and teacher have comparable functions: to guide the child/student through developmental tasks.  What makes responsibility so critical to this role is that it is encumbent upon the teacher/parent to respond to the student/child's developmental needs.  That is a huge task.  It is not to be taken lightly and must be entered into with the utmost humility. 

Emily felt the need to address this in regard to Caterina's posts.  I re-read her posts to see how she used this term, "teacher."  Caterina says, "

"I was going to be the teacher. I was going to bring them both into a tender, playful experience with me, and whatever became of it would be the fruit of a gorgeously mature tree nurtured on ideas of non-attachment and love... and Joni's lyrics "All that I really really want our love to do is to bring out the best in me and in you too (TWO).." and I would not get attached to these young lovers. Well, I didn't think about it that hard, but these were more or less the nature of the thoughts, I think, if I remember accurately."

After reading this, I asked myself if Caterina saw herself as a teacher in the formal sense of the term, and I thought, no.  My sense is that she meant it more metaphorically, that is, as a way of indicating the differences in ages, experience and, indeed, knowledge.  Perhaps even more accurately in the way Emily wisely described: "While, someone may discover something in my thinking or actions that prompt them to think in a new way, I am not a teacher, but an open friend."  This is exactly how I consistently felt in my readings of Caterina's story.  If I am incorrect, Caterina, please correct me.

Personally, I think it's a most fitting term, for it underscores the playfulness of her intentions, and I think play is the point here.  Seriously.  Nor do I think Caterina used this "identity" pretentiosuly or to insinuate herself in a power position "over" the men.  Here again, is a perfect example of context.  The context is serious play serving the playful seeker.  And most importantly, I think the more serious Caterina actually saw herself as the "student," using the serious play of intimacy to go deeper into self-understanding.

I'm actually less curious at this point about Caterina's intentions and exquisitely wrought narrative then what her language has evoked on the blog.  Am i missing something here?  Caterina, if you're out there, have I misinterpreted your experience? And, Emily, have I misread your point?

You can't make me feel anything I don't want to feel!  :)

That's the point of it all, I think.

Camila, your voice and your language are so beautiful and fresh.  I know I said this before but it's true, it's true.

I have to go see the Savages after that glowing review.

 Hello Camila.  There's something I love about a voice that is free and explorative, right in the moment, sharing and then WHAM opening into spaces of memory that add context and personality to that present voice.  Someone I can relate to. I like how you end your post on a note about the damage of judging to relationships.  It feels like your just letting yourself write was also about letting go of judgment and censorship and just stepping into the conversation from wherever you are. 

 How is your father now?  I would like to see this movie as I have a father who is dying (or has been, for a while, and in a way he's been causing me to live honestly.)

she's doing it again!

I got three plants and a computer.  How's that for a foursome?

Might even get some cookies too.  Oreos or chocolate chip.  And I don't mind the neutered dog either.  He can watch me eat the cookies while surrounded by the plants in front of the computer.

I so sexy!

Om, you post about women/beauty/sexual objects is so multilayered.  I only have one simple response at the moment.   I still have, as I did, back when, a love/hate relationship with my own face and body. There are still  times when I hate it so much, I don't want to leave the house.

These feeling were so ingrained that I have a hard time looking at photographs of myself or even looking in the mirror.  Talk about judgement.  I want to reject the physicality that I see.   And I feel this regardless of the fact that the young women in the video's and the older women who have had cosmetic surgery have faces that reveal so little and seem so unattractive.  I don't want to look like them.   But I always worried about looking like me. 

I don't think that I really addressed your question.  But it certainly something that I have  been fighting against.  It was not easy for me to post a photograph of myself this past week.  But this is really an aspect of letting go that I am addressing and want to continue to become more open and accepting of who I am..  I want to accept all of me, not just parts.  I've come a long way, but aging brings it home in a new way.

 Beauty has always been a big issue for me.  At some point, maybe when I was 15, I fully embraced the definition of beauty as interior and used to tell myself and friends that a truly beautiful person is one who makes you feel beautiful.  I stopped shaving my legs for a couple of years, I stopped wearing chemical deodorants that I feared would probably cause breast cancer.  I didn't think too much about looking like any ideal of "feminine beauty" and my own started to emerge which took the form of "earth mother" and so forth.  I have generally been pretty comfortable with my own personal beauty and so focused on an interior kind... then i went to Italy for the first time and was completely challenged with other ideas.  I turned over my worn out "cowgirl" boots for high heels, whose brand name I hated but I liked the style: "Destroy," they were called.  I was 19 and different desires for expressing my sexuality started to form.  I still would never approach elegance, but I wanted to be attractive in a different way, I wanted to fit in more but remain outside convention.  I knew appearance was part of a conversation one was having with the culture but I was becoming less enthusiastic about starting the conversation with overt signals that always, without fail, lead people to focus on my dress instead of on what I was saying.

My ideas of feminine beauty have not changed though (as something interior, ageless), as for beauty in general.  Th most beautiful women I have met of late are all over 70!  But the images you are talking about are not about beauty as much as they are about power through sexual advertisement.  We live in a culture of desire; consumerism depends upon all of us feeling like we're not good enough; if we could be happy with what we already have the machine wouldn't work.  An entire industry is based on convincing us we need products and accoutrements to be more attractive, desirable.  This goes for men as well, this whole conversation does!

One of the main shifts for me was taking over the place of the desirer instead of identifying with the object of desire.  As desirer, I don't need to be desired for my appearance to get at the heart of my experience and seeking.  What is desired is held within a continual process of relating, within the question.  But this still doesn't speak to your question.

Autonomy for women does need for us to shift from objects of desire to desiring  subjects.  In some ways, the culture that says it's not shameful to a) have sexual power and b) play with it, is cool.  But it still, if it is the only strong voice of feminine power (Christ, if that's our only power, then what does that say about our views of human ambition and creativity in general?) then we're losing.  I think a lot of women, including young women, view those images you speak of with some irony (seeing through them for how they are being used to sell something); but in most cases women are still bound to feel they have to be sexual objects of desire to be attractive.  Or they have to fit a role (nurturer, mother, counselor, muse).  There's nothing wrong with finding oneself in that role or being moved by another person's embodiment of that role at any given moment, as long as the subject is sought ultimately.

One thing that is positive about our hyper sexualized MTV culture (though still obviously limiting) is the embracing of different shapes of women: a lot of the "hot" women now are pretty curvy, voluptuous (especially black women, in fact, almost exclusively black women).  But the image of women is fucked up, the racism inherent in it is fucked up, and all of this is entirely used to propel these images of power through sex, and ultimately the culture of consumerism.

As the balance of this whole mechanism speaks to the harnessing of our desires for fulfillment and love in order to run the cosmos of consumerism, (and I wouldn't overlook other political ideologies' subjugation of women either), the so-called "patriarchy" is still in full and mighty reign.  Seriously.  For example, a powerful women who is powerful not because of her sexuality but because of her intelligence or her choice and unique voice is still something to tame, to put into a role, quick, before she gets too free.  I've noticed that when I sexualize myself I seem to make the men I work with feel more comfortable around me because, since I am clearly not one of the guys, I can still be imagined as fitting within a paradigm says I am capable of being possessed or subjugated, put down.  If I am autonomous and free, I am a competition and there's nowhere to place me that is clear in a male dominant spectrum.  

I love sexuality and love that it is part of our culture but I hate how it is so narrowly contrived as a visual image of desire.  I also think that sexuality is, as an energy, often considered "dangerous" because it shifts and alters power structures.  Even in yoga and other contemplative practices, it is "harnessed" as something that should serve the higher ideals of mind over matter (patriarchy).  As long as we see "matter" as a thing we are not a part of (i.e. mind over matter) then we will be seeking an orientation that is patriarchal.  If, instead, matter is not viewed as a "thing" so much as a relationship, intimately connected to mind and deep mind, to desire and to our deepest dreams and as the mysterious manifestation of our inner most needs, then maybe we will honor experience more as something of which we are co-creators, rather than something in which we are passive or aggressive participants.

Dang, there is so much to say on this subject!  Great topic to explore, Om and everyone!

I have been trying to respond to this for a while. There are so many things running through my mind to say on the subject.. But every time I start writing about my feelings  I end up angry and upset and pacing my room. Therefore, this is a short, disjointed post.

This is one of the few topics of discussion over which I smolder. I sit here steaming about how unfair and grotesque it is. How personally and intimately I feel this sting. Whenever I turn on the teevee or (god forbid) open up a beauty magazine, I am instantly struck with this churning feeling of inadequacy and fear. Inadequacy because I am tooshortoofatooweirdtoopoornotpretty. Fear because I am convinced that other people think this way as well.

Thank you Emily, Caterina, and Camila, for sharing these insights. You all make me proud to be a woman (even a young one) with all my flaws and misgivings. I tend to feel so hopeless when I think about the feminine place in society. Knowing that there are others to whom I can relate makes me feel a little better!

Fun fact: from what I understand.. prostitution and marriage were created at the same time, in Mesopotamia around 3000BCE.

I have been writing and re-writing this for an hour or two, now.. and I just want to end by raising my marker and placing a bid on this vexing conversation.

I've been hooked in now, James must have known I wouldn't be able to resist this post.

Reading these responses has been very interesting and I am grateful for the insights but I feel they have just brought me through familiar circles of frustration.

I am interested to hear what the men have to say about this.  How has the over-sexualization of women affected their relationships to and with women?

OK, I am going to write my way out of my box by telling you some stories about myself.  First off, I reject myself.  My belief is that any stories I may tell are trivial and redundant of everyone else’s stories. 

 
I am sixty-three years old.   I have been in two marriages.  The second one has so far lasted 32 years and, amazingly for its age, is growing progressively deeper and more connected.  I am blessed by this and frightened of the end that I know is coming.  I think about my death and my partner's death always.  So my life is a mixture good and bad.  The bad being endless internal agony of failure.
 

Although I have enough internal anguish without help from the outside, there is exterior stuff as well.  For the past 23 years, I have been diabetic.  It is a huge pain in the ass.  I want to live and to act in my interest, but there is something in me that seems always to undermine that interest.  I know that good diabetes self care is not rocket science.  The problem is that it goes on every minute of every day… no letup.  It is an endurance battle that reminds me every day of my failure.

I do not want to overstate this.  In addition to my partner, I have two, now grown, children who are very giving and with whom I cherish my connectedness.  But on my own, I cause myself a lot of suffering.  I am looking for ways out, it is my intention over the next weeks to write a series of short episodes.

 Megan,  I am struck by the synchronicity of this story with the discourses on the feminine image as well as Emily's story of the murder trial.  With the feminine image we've been talking about how these hyper-sexualized images of women evoke a kind of violence towards women and yet we're not talking about it as a culture... In the case of Emily's trial, how she saw the man who murdered her aunt and instead of feeling anger and rage, her feelings transformed to pity and love, anger and the need to assign a real value to this man's act was repressed though re-evoked through reading my story of the threesome.  So much of our discourse is around how to have an authentic and integrated response to something without judgment.  

I think we can learn to identify the significance of something, to assign value and priority to things, events, people, acts, experiences, etc., without judging them.  But we NEED to assign this value!!  It is not only a need of ours as conscious beings, but also it reconstitutes the soul of all of us through community; assigning value speaks to our interconnectedness, it is the gift of responding to those seeking connection!  

Not-judging does not mean not assigning value.  I remember Om saying once that dissociative behavior is the inability to assign value to one's experience or to the experience of another being.  Judging ceases to see into the complexity of experience, it does not see or hold the awareness out of which certain acts arise, these acts actually communicating this awareness (or set of transferences with a fear-based consciousness).  Assigning value can actually be done while maintaining an awareness of the complexity.  It also is the only mode that allows for dialogue and growth and learning from our experiences.  We must remember that we're all shooting around here in the dark, bumping up against stuff that we didn't know was there.  We need to love ourselves and each other and be more compassionate towards our attempts at making sense of this strange existence.  

Your story about having something taken or stolen from you (or someone else) is a perfect example of an opportunity to assign value to this act of violation and to align with the ability to respond.

I feel very strongly about this.  If we do NOT respond to those who violate us in some way, we are doing both ourselves, that person, and our community a disservice.  If I ignore your violation, I take away the possibility for you to actually have a response and feel connected to the tethers of life and community.  What I do to you, I do to me.  If I ignore you, I take away your right to exist.  You would be perfectly justified in responding to my ignorance with more violence.  If I ignore you, you may act out again, this time more loudly, maybe with more extreme consequences.

Furthermore, if you violate me you do so out of ignorance.  If I do not respond, how are you to feel the boundary of Other, against which you and I  both need to press in order to grow?

Compassion compassion, is always the rule.  I may not be able to respond.  I may be too traumatized.  And so the initial responses are only meant for me; I need to take care of me first.  Eventually I will be able to "Respond" to my violator, maybe not directly (usually not) but in how I respond to the memory in me, and in how I am able to think about relationships in general.  I think this is definitely the case in the loss of Emily's aunt.  How could she have been able to have a response towards this man different than the one she had?  Her empathic mind saved her from destabilizing emotions that she must have known or intuited would not be held or guided properly by her adult caretakers.  The way she was able to handle this experience, I think, helped her to survive that period, though now she's looking at what it must mean to actually feel the loss and pain, and anger, and to respond to the injustice with real compassion and without judgment.  

Examples of response and non-response to violation (violation, though ignorant of itself, is still a form of communication): 

Non-response: "oh, let's hope he needed it more than we do."  That's bullshit.  I love when you say "In need of what? ... In need of a good jail term; what about my needs?"  That's a real response!  The response is to recognize the connection, the violation, what has transpired, which is felt on the person, in how we feel.  To recognize and honor this and share it. "When you did this it hurt me, I felt violated."  Response!  Non-response: "Oh here just take my money, take my car.  it's ok.  You need it more than me." Crap!

Here's an example that just happened the other day:

I'm in a car with a friend.  She's driving and we are stopped at a red light.  A guy comes up to our car, obviously a non-Italian, non-european undocumented worker trying to get by.  He offers to wash her windows for spare change.  She says "No thanks."  He makes the gesture again to wash, completely ignoring her.   "No, no grazie" she says and though she is repeatedly saying No, he persists and insists and then takes the windshield wipers, lifts them one at a time, washes her windshield aggressively, sets the wipers back down and now she's stopped trafic in order to go through her purse to find the change to give to this guy.

I kept saying "No! Don't give him money!  What he did is unacceptable!"  and she would say "But look, he's given me this service, he needs the money more than me," and I, "But he took it from you.  He basically forced you to give him a euro."  And she: "yeah, I know but I am so priviledged with respect to him, I can afford it, it's no big deal."  "But you said No and he took it anyway.  That's the point and I think you are rewarding him for acting in a way that is uncivil and does nothing good for him or for you.  You are basically saying, Ok Ok, with your aggression, you win."  She agreed that he wouldn't have done it if we were guys.  She agreed that he "took" from her, but she felt sorry for him in the end.

This conversation went on for about 45 minutes.  We had to stop the car and talk about it at length.   She said she understood what I was saying but that in the end she felt OK giving him the money and I said, Well if you feel OK, then that's not a problem.  But the truth is that that man forced himself on her.  Her response was to give him money, in a way, to get rid of him.  That is a form of "non-response" in my opinion, because we are not taking that person's act upon us honestly. My response is dishonest if you violate me and I roll over and say "that's fine, take whatever you want, I don't care."  (Well, it's honest of something else... I know, because this is how I used to have sex with people... not always, but there were times... I would let them have whatever they wanted, and I would disappear... what was honest was my descent into the trauma of having been violated somehow at sometime that I cannot remember). Anyway...

If I turn to you and say "No, you don't get to demand payment for a service I didn't ask for, you don't get to be rewarded for being aggressive."  I am responding.  And I will stay to hear his response to me which, in my experience, is often "Fuck you, bitch!"  On other occasions, we might even transcend the contexts of "have and have not" and become human beings to one another, through which a light of hope might shine for both of us as to how to go on in this world of imbalance, transforming it into community.  If I just throw money at him to get rid of him, I'm not expecting to include this person in my community.  I'm keeping him on the outside.  Furthermore, I can feel sorry for this person, or feel compassion, and not give money if the occasion doesn't feel right to me.  I can also give when it does feel right.  But our response has to be honest.  I think my friend's response was honest for her, in the sense that it was what she wanted to communicate, "you need this more than me" communication, which is kindness.  But she also communicated "giving in to aggression" and that, for me, was not aligned with her true desire, her true intention.  [I guess what I mean by "being honest" is to align with our intention.  If we are not aligned, we will feel it and so we can reflect on what it is and how to align.]

BTW, Florence passed a law prohibiting the window-washers from washing windows on the streets because of this very occurrence.  Apparently, someone got their windows washed who didn't like it and the town fought back by saying NO to the whole enterprise.  So now, these immigrants have lost another small cash-making venue.  They are cast out further.  Italian papers did nothing but talk about this new law (criticizing it) for over a week.     

... though still not free of the dual.

Love your post, Camilla, and wrote this one in response last night... (now freshly edited so as to make more sense to non-drunk people)

Recently, I have met these beautiful women who are over 70.  

I notice how they carry themselves, how they laugh and love openly.  I know in their lifetimes they were not so sexualized as we are today and I wonder if our young women (if I) will be able to grow into such images of grace and beauty.  If these women, however, were not so sexualized in their own lifetimes, other women certainly were, and these were left in the shadows of a culture which would assign them a value within its dual role-casting of feminine identity alla Madonna/Whore.   That is to say, if we are seeing more images of sexualized women today,  it is because a tendency which once relegated the "whore" to the shadows is now allowed to exalt her and as a result the image is becoming more complex simply because it is being proposed to a consciousness, indeed it is being proposed to the "market".  Even if that booty shakin' video only says "You know you want a piece of this", it is saying it within a certain ironic awareness of it's own creation.  We are fascinated with the power of sexual forces, we are experimenting with how we can use or harness this power.  But the sexual and racial subjugation as part of it is being left unquestioned. 

I know we have seen more complex and more intellectual cultures.  I know woman have even been regarded as more "powerful" and more "complex", more "Agents" at times different than our own: the 1890's and 1920's with the pulse of feminism reaching a fervor across Europe and the Americas; the '60's with free love and a new ecological awareness forming, alongside of awareness of interconnectedness.  

I am not sure where we are now with feminist thought.  It seems as though we have dropped the dialogues as a culture for the time being and I'm not sure I understand why.  Are we just hibernating?  Are we needing to shift our focus from women rising in the workplace and to positions of leadership to values that are not so much about possession and acquisition?  Is the new feminism going to find it's voice in underscoring new modes of relating that respect and indeed need and nourish the Other and seek evolution of Self as interconnected to all life (I hope so!!).  

One thing I think we are witnessing in the current tv trends of images of women is the emergence of woman as agent of her own sexual power, of her own image (look at Madonna, for example, how often she's played with her image and with sex and sexuality as topics to explore therein).  At the center of this query is the issue of Freedom and of Power: (if I have a certain sexual and creative power, how do I use it, what will I chose to create with it?  Is it all just about taking from others or is there a greater purpose to this power?)

Now this is the image proposed by the women out there, not the male booty shakin' video, but the female pop star shakin' her thing.  The dual is no longer strictly seen as dual Mother/Whore, the feminine image is emerging as more complex because her subject-hood is coming through.  Still we are fascinated with sex and with sexual power, with domination and subjugation and so the focus of a lot of camerawork is on how much a woman is dominating her own image as seductrix or simply object of sexual desire... how much is she present to our gaze as subject?  Is she aware of her power and using it, or is she just something nice to look at, something to desire? How does woman use her power?  We are watching carefully.

I am not against sexuality at all, or sex, or even playing in the role as seductrix, or even sex "object" as long as that object-status sits next to the awareness of my subject-hood like a costume does on an actor. 

What annoys and troubles me is the ignorance of the "non-dialogues" that are out there in the form of "culture."  Where there's no criticism or perspective, we are just spinning out these images without reflection.  The danger is when we stop reflecting, stop noticing or talking about the image of the feminine (because we stop looking into ourselves).

These images (sexy women) don't bother me as much as they used to.  They used to rip me up inside; I used to feel so inferior and ugly compared to them and I used to imagine that I would have to find a partner who was blind to those images so that I wouldn't always feel lesser. Prior to that type of comparison, however, I remember being a kid and enjoying images of powerful women, like wonder woman and Jane Fonda, Princess Leah and Madonna (especially Madonna) because they were fun and vibrant.  I think as a kid we can glean the essence of these images better.  As adolescents we suffer because of them.  As adults we can see them more objectively, as ideas spun out by a culture, rather than examples we are supposed to imitate.  

I don't find myself comparing myself to those sexy woman images anymore, not at all... [and what a relief!  It used to be so painful]... I don't worry about whether or not a man or a woman might be turned on by those images because they are just images.  They are not people, they are images and as such they are ideas... they are evocative or they are repulsive, but whatever, they are not substitutes for intimacy, for human contact and real life and love. Recognizing them as ideas, we can even approach "culture" more intimately, and with less judgment.  We can open ourselves to listen to what it is that we are seeking.    

What has to be the real loss in our culture is the space for femininity to be something respected and separate from violence.  She and He could be more about reflection, more about seeking integration. If our culture is becoming or already is all about selling shit, and we don't value or trust dialogues that are more "intellectual", or critical, we are failing to bring forth a generation of beings that can think outside the box.  And yet, and yet... there will always be examples in a person's life of beauty that do not correspond to those MTV images.  I trust and believe and know this to be true.  Just because it's on tv and in our faces doesn't mean there isn't an awareness that is different.  I am already experiencing this with the young people I meet (and have known when teaching in the university).  On the contrary, most of the young people I meet are exceptionally aware and perceptive of values that are interiorly derived.