unwooly spring

When I have slept the spring
and from my open window
a wind chime sounds, all is not
the soft persisting of rain's needlepoint.

I have had my sleep.  I wake aching
as the world’s turning out and I—
as if we’ve only now discovered end
without end.  Stepping out,

a gregarious pebble traps inside my shoe
to goad my crooked step.
The crow glints, yawing black.

Even the ironwork of fences call to me
in wavering, touchless song.  I am shorn.
My sadness feels the ecstasy of light.

( tags: )

Thank you

I have not posted here in many weeks, and I feel, somehow, that I owe you (or Emily, particularly) an explanation.

 

Unfortunately, I do not have one.

 

I have an explanation for why I have returned.  It has to do with Noah and James and Ezra and Ceili, old friends and new ones, air mattresses and late-night conversations and frantic dinners made over burners that no longer light automatically and laughter and company.

 

My explanation does not explain anything or why I keep coming back here after I am hopelessly lost in some of the discussion, having missed twists and turns and relationships.  Or why, when I am lonely or bored or not-thinking about the men in my life (yes, there are two of them, and it's not as fun as it might potentially sound), I return here like it is home.

 

Home is the place where, when you have to go there, they have to take you in. Is that a Frost quote?  It's late; I can't remember.

 

Point is, you have taken me in over and over while I have wimped out on you and withdrawn into my little Carmen-shell.  It is crowded in here.  I am like a hermit crab looking for a new one.  Perhaps my new shell will have skylights and french doors, lovely glass, and I will invite all of you in for tea and biscuits.  In thanks.  Because you have given me very much just in your presence.

 

PS Noah I love your crow.  I'd like him to sit in a corner of my room while I write.  Wouldn't that be Gothic!  And I love the images of shorn-ness, of newness, of rebirth.  Of necessarily needing to undergo some sort of discomfort, some sort of pain, to find a joy again.  And that you don't need to eradicate the sadness, just acknowledge it, tell it that it may now converse with the light.

 

I think I will write you a poem soon.  Now, though, it is late late and I should sleep before we're too far into tomorrow.

inside jokes :O (talk about exclusivity! geez!)

 and don't forget the curry powder! and parakeet scarves. i'm looking forward to reading a poem of yours again, whenever you get around to sharing one. i remember conversing with you through poetry some time ago :P we can knit another poetry sock sometime. we'll have to use that paper clip looking thingy.

actually

i think it would be better to just use a pearl stitch ;)

inside out (a poem for spring and James)

Because every joke is an inside joke, but spring happens outside:

 

inside out

 

someone sneaky planted daffodils
yellow mulched down beaming
in squares around the winter-bare trees

 

yesterday I saw a flock of geese
veeing north above the icy lake
their necks stretched towards the spring

 

I wonder as I tuck my chin
against the funnelled wind
whether geese mistook the daffodils
for some more natural sign
and followed their yellow road north
like another girl in another story
seeking the end of fairytales

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hi

The controller also is responsible for preparing tax returns for the business; a much more involved and complex task than completing personal income tax forms!

 

 

How to fix an exhaust system

 

Carmen

No explanation necessary.  I am just so happy to "see you" again.

I had faith that we woudl meet again.

I have so much to write in response to everyone.  My table is full.   But, I too, need to find my way back to bed.   Exhaustion flooded over me tonight and I actually fell asleep at nine o'clock.   I woke about a half hour ago and just had to get up and read the blog .  Now, I can go back to bed and have very sweet dreams.

Big Momma here, signing off, after checking on all those she loves.  I am pulling the covers up to your chin and tucking it in all aorund the edges of your body.  Very cozy.

tucked in

I cannot stay away too long, Blog-Mother.  ;)

 

Clear your  table one piece at a time, slowly, and place grandma's china and the fancy silver back in their places, the National Geographics atop the bookshelf, the day's mail and here and there pieces of soul fluttered from their rightful places.

 

I hope you dreamed well.  I know I did.

Pass the soap

 

Yes, I'm here.

reading over your shoulders..

I keep wanting to peep up but there is so much

to say

and who has the time to do dishes?

the only dishes that I have been doing recently are

from my paints.

I have been eating toast on napkins.

 

so hello all, I

am not saying much.

but I will spread out

the words

so that they might stretch

their legs

and take up space.

(this helps me feel less trapped, you see)

 

GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME BACK CARMEN

 

 

So happy you’re back.  And my dear Emily, a big round hug for you, too.  I’ve been pretty crunched these days, for no other reason than more work, which takes up quite a bit of space.  Blessed space for sure, but space nonetheless :)

 

And so, I’m just going to rest a bit and stay low.  I want to thank you guys for staying active, I know it’s a commitment and difficult to stay with, like washing the dishes, but it will serve you, I promise.  And, remember, there are people out there who visit daily, even if they don’t write.  Knowing there will be someone there to say hello is what keeps the blog alive.  Right Nico?  For me, it’s like coming home.  You guys are amazing.  Thank you all.

 

And thank you Noah, you’re doing it, my friend.  Internal order is the remedy for a chaotic world as understanding is the remedy for a disordered mind as process is the remedy for a ruptured or distant relationship. Authenticity, responsibility and commitment, like a club sandwich.

 

And if you have to scream once in a while, that’s good, too.  And I love a good fight; it’s real and keeps desire fresh.  And a poet needs his desire fresh.

 

Sit, write and love.

 

Om mani padme hum

What's the deal with your party Om?

So what is the deal with this party in May. It sounds like a really great idea. Do you  have a date?  Can I help somehow? 

 

 

A NIGHT PLUCKED GENTLY: IT'S FUNNY YOU ASKED MEGAN

They say that practice makes perfect.  Well, as serendipity would have it, an unexpected change of plans became a an unexpected night of some of my blog friends joining me for a practice run at Cacio e Vino, our May party spot.  And it included all the prosecco and pizza I had promised for May.  And so, Caterina, Camila, james, Noah and Ceili, what a lovely surprise it was for everyone but me :)  My toast of the evening was To the Intimacy of No-Longer Strangers, and that means something very significant to me.  It means that intimacy, when guided by true compassion and kindness, whether virtual or not, finds its own natural course of expression, in real terms.  I asked everyone at the table if the blog personas matched the respective people meeting each other for the first time and everyone seemed to agree.  Oh, yes, that is Caterina!!!!!!!  We watched her go up to Fabio, the owner, and negotiate a deal with the wine.  Oh, yes, that is our Caterina

 

How many times have you met people after reading their texts and were stunned (often disappointed) by how different their text and actually identities were?  In the dating world, you find it often.  But, our blog community strikes me by its authenticity, with or without the "pen."  Yours are your true voices and you are real beautiful beings. 

 

Of course, we didn't want to part, so we all went to a film, `The Band's Visit.'  A film, by the way, appropriately about the intimacy of strangers and language.  Lost on their way to an Arab cultural center in Israel, members of an Egyptian policemen's orchestra end up in a backwater town, where some locals put them up for a night.  The clash of two cultures as told in the stories within a story, the main one of which was about Dina, the israeli divorcee, and Tewfiq, the police conductor.  They represented the film's overall theme, and Caterina defined it best for me: "He is Egypt, She is Israel." 

 

The film was painful in a fundamental way, too, in that the characters really didn't have what we have here on the block-- language, the capacity to use reflection to recognize self and other-- and the result was what one character described as "tons of loneliness."  The happiest character, interestingly enough, was Khaled, the rebellious pleasure-seeker, who described love-making as if he were a sufi. 

 

A lovely evening with lovely friends.  I can't wait for the rest of you to join in May.

joy joy joy

 I have no words to describe what tonight was like for me.  Ok, that's a joke.  my first thought goes out to all of you who were not there but there in the presence as the community of this special blog, of all that you've shared, the safety I feel with you all, and felt tonight, and if tonight was a taste of what May will be like... Ahhhh!!  Pure joy.  I am so happy.

Now, how do I process this with all of you?  Besides the joy, how can I tell you what tonight felt like for me?  I have no other experience in my life to compare it to, to the feeling of meeting people with whom i've shared so much of my self freely through writing, and they've shared so much of themselves, and we've done this together.  I was sharing with Camila tonight how I feel like when you develop a purely written relationship with someone, and it's one on one (as in internet dating), it's easy for two people to hone in on what they think the other one wants to hear.  And one can get very involved in this, opening very deeply, creatively, falling in love, as I have done once without meeting the person for a month and a half.  And then the meeting can be (and was in fact) such a let down.  For me, it was a nightmare, actually.  That time, years ago.  But because we are sharing to a community, there is a different kind of investment of creativity (and well, we're not trying to negotiate a question of whether or not we are going to be life partners, so that takes a bit of a burden off) but there's a freedom here to share whatever you want to share (and even a kind of responsibility to the project of community) and so gradually and collectively we come to know each other and ourselves through the reflection here on this block.  So that meeting each other tonight was for me like a joyous reunion, no deficiency, no built up fantasies, no let down!

Om, you're a genius.  But we knew that!

I don't want it to end.  I want to hang out with my new friends in person more often.  I feel like life has just opened up a whole new dimension of joy for me.  Have I used the word "joy" enough?

Anyway, there's always more and I am in deep gratitude to all of you for this feeling.  Can't wait for the next constellations to arise.

 

 

anusvara (अनुस्वर), Om (ँ़), śāntiḥ (शान्तिः), and elliott

 i'm so glad that you gave me my lower case 'j' in my name. i appreciate that; thank you :)

 

also: Om. (you know, i have been taught that when chanting Om, we stop once we reach the 'm' sound. this is (i think) because the ṃ sound is anusvara, as opposed to the "letter" m(a) (म), and is sort of considered a "stop." there are two of these "stops," which serve as sort of a separation. anusvara and visarga. anusvara appears as a dot above a letter (मं maṃ) and sometimes, as always in the case of Om, it appears as a dot encased in a semicircle (ँ़ Om), and visarga appears as a colon, such as in śāntiḥ (in the subject of the post), and is pronounced as an aspirated separation, or stop. so it is "shantee-hee." if any of that came through clearly... hopefully your browser will let you see the beautiful devanagari script!)

 

so onwards to two other languages altogether. more than two, actually. i loved how human the movie felt to me. it was really funny, really uncomfortable, and really painful, and all of these felt like very human instances of each. a lot of humor we get these days is over-the-top humor; the scene in the roller rink (you drink, also), on the other hand, was funny and endearing because people can be like that. just very human. and then the pain... sometimes when there is "drama" in a funny movie it feels out of place, but this, again, felt so very human, so the transition was organic. we can go from a very funny place to a very painful place; that happens.

 

all week i've been singing "I Didn't Understand," by Elliott Smith. i can't sing it terribly well... i tried to make a video to share with you, but it felt blasphemous. his voice is beautiful, and especially in this song. i encourage you to seek out the original. it's all vocals. towards the end of the movie Tewfiq shares part of why the loss of his wife is so painful for him, and part of why Dina's comment about his son hurt him so badly. he says, "I didn't understand... I didn't understand him..." and naturally i could hear Elliott (and me) singing in my ears that very same line. now, Elliott's song is not about the loss of a son, or about the same kind of lack of understanding, but the pain and attachment feel relevant:

 

You once talked to me about love

And you painted pictures of a never-never land

And I could have gone to that place

But I didn't understand

I didn't understand

I didn't understand...

 

what seems to me even more painful than the fact of the loss, is the self-judgment that goes along with this mournful way of saying "I didn't understand." I didn't understand, and I pushed you away instead of embracing you. I didn't understand, and as a result I lost my son and my wife. I didn't understand, and I missed the opportunity for relationship. the loss feels final in these instances. for Elliott she has left; for Tewfiq they are dead. and for example, it isn't even the loss of something real (for Elliott), but the loss of some once spoken about "never-never land." 

 

what hurts about this in the case of Tewfiq isn't just that he is in so much pain, but that this loss limits him so very much. he is able to share his loss with Dina, but that is all. as to his feelings for her-- what he can offer is "you are a good woman... I'm sure of it." this is actually a beautiful moment, too, because he is also saying, "You would make a good mother," which touches both of them. but like Om says, he does not have language and the capacity to use reflection to recognize self and other. so he's sort of stranded. it is very clear how much is going on just below the surface in the film, because the characters are all so full and real. so, for example, when Tewfiq reaches out and touches Khaled, it feels like his effort to reach out and touch his son, and to say, "I will try to understand." but again this comes with huge limitation, and though Khaled is at first touched by this gesture, in the end it seems to feel forced, and Tewfiq doesn't know what to do once he's put his hand on Khaled.

 

well, i've got more sorting to do. and i haven't been doing my homework or eating enough today. and i made a mess trying to record. boooo. so hopefully one of the other moviegoers will help me gather my thoughts more clearly! until then... spring cleaning.

elliott

 there it is; just listen, though. the video was made, i think, well after elliott died, and i don't think he would have liked it much. i don't like it much, myself. he definitely wouldn't have been down with nondescript shots of people wringing their heads in their hands... but thank you! there is the song. it's very beautiful.

 

i once dreamt of elliott. in i think late september of '03 i found out he'd be playing a show in brooklyn. it was in the afternoon and way out of my way, and i had a test that day. so i figured: "well, i'll have another opportunity to see him play some other time." then a month or so passed and i was having some email exchange with someone. i can't remember how i had met her. i think i was buying some elliott item from her off of ebay, or something. and we had spoken a bit an she sent me an email that said, "i assume you heard what happened to elliott." and... i hadn't heard what happened to elliott. my heart started pounding and i googled him. some nonsense about him being dead... possible suicide... i didn't get it at all. i was confused. it took so long to sink in, that he actually died. i was pretty depressed about it for a while. elliott was a very important part of my high school life (in a sort of depressed-loner way), and an even more important part of my musical development (in a bit more significant a way). i learned a lot from him, and continue to learn from him when i return to his music every so often.

 

one of his songs ("XO") goes:

 

I'm never gonna know you now

But I'm gonna love you anyhow

 

and there was an article in some magazine about elliott and his death; the author, also a fan, went out to portland to some elliott-commemoration get together, where a bunch of people showed up with candles and guitars and played "Say Yes" over and over. i was disheartened i hadn't heard of it. but anyway, at the end of the article the author wrote, "XO Elliot-- I'm gonna love you anyhow." boy, that line hurt. that was right out of my experience. but even though it felt so so great to know there were others out there going through what i was going through, i still felt very isolated in my suffering. ultimately all of those people were so far away-- i still couldn't quite get it that elliott was dead, let alone that these phantom people had shown up around some tree in portland. and anyone who could see that i was hurting in my life pretty much just left it at that, too frightened, i supposed, to comfort me. or it was made into a joke: "boy, james really loved elliott, huh? emo-kid..."

 

so the dream. not terribly long thereafter i had a dream i was moving furniture. i was i think moving into a new place (this was before i ever lived on my own-- this was, in fact, in tenth grade), and some friends and other folks were helping me move stuff. but pretty much everyone got lazy and left, except one guy who was still helping me out. finally, when we brought the couch into the living room, i peered underneath his baseball cap and recognized him. i said, "Elliott!!" he was sort of bashful (as i know he would have been), but i got him to sit down and answer some questions. i told him how important he was to me, but he insisted he wasn't worth all the fuss. we spoke for a long time that evening in my half-filled new apartment. i woke up feeling so satisfied and excited, but then shortly thereafter i fell back into a depressive reaction.

 

i wrote this song thereafter, mostly in a rage against myself, referencing one of Elliott's most beautiful song's, "Clementine":

 

You had the feelings I feared I would

I stuck away from that shit for good

Thanks to the memories you kindly shared with me

 

Figured I'd put up a fight

Somebody's got to do it right

But if this is the replacement for your life

I'd rather know your hell

 

I can't quite get over that I never saw you play

Just 'cause I thought there would be time

 

If you were drunk and fucked up all your lines

At least I'd know what you were like alive

And I'd have told you that your voice had made me cry

 

I like to think that you sang to me

Never knowing who I could be

Me and your Clementine

Me and your Clementine

 

But I know I'll never know

But I know I'll never know

But I know I'll never know

But I know I'll never know

 

-------

 boy, that was a long time ago! it's amazing going back in time through my own tunes and writings... 

 

connections

Elliot Smith went to Hampshire College, where (as I told you last night) I went to college.  My cousin went there too and she knew Elliot.  I don't think they were good friends or anything, but they may have had friends in common.  I guess that doesn't really mean anything, but there are so few times I can say a famous person went to my college, that I like to slip that in when I can. 

I'm curious.  You say that Elliot was very significant for you, both in your musical development as well as in a "depressed-loner way".  Can you say more about that? Why do you think he had such an impact on you?  Maybe you already explained this in your two previous posts, but I'm feeling like there's more to it. 

I like the connection you make, by the way, between what Tewfiq said about not understanding or (recognizing) his son and elliot's lyrics and the fact that both the fictional son and the real life elliot take their own life.   This thing that we do when we get in our own way of experiencing the very intimacy we desire, it's tragic sometimes.

I also love the way you describe what was going on relationally in the movie.  couldn't have said anything better. I found it very painful this longing experienced by virtually every character in the film (including the guy waiting for his girl to call on the pay phone).   Thank god there was some of that dark humor to break the tension.  Perhaps this hit home for me since I've been feeling a lot of longing of late. 

I also love what Caterina said (according to Om, at least) that she was Israel and he was Egypt. 

Did any of you all see Once?  I saw it a couple of weeks ago and have been wanting to talk about it here.  It's another movie about longing and inter-cultural connections.  However, in this one, the connection between the two main characteristics, although never "consumated" leads to major life transformation for them both.  The music is amazing and I can't get it out of my head:

www.youtube.com/watch

 

dot-connecting

 ahh, much to respond to. i haven't yet seen Once, though i love that song. and now i'm playing it! thanks :) and i'm glad to know you knew someone who knew elliott! fun stuff. anyway, i'm sure someone else here has seen Once, and once i do i'll be very glad to chat about it.

 

i think for now i'll just stick to a few words about elliott. i think partly i just clung to elliott because some of his music felt like it was saying what i was feeling. "you had the feelings i feared i would," and consequently he got into drugs and awful relationships and all sorts of other stuff. he found refuge, so it seemed to me, in his quiet music. he was in a punk-rock(ish) band called Heatmiser, but ultimately cared most deeply for his light whispery finger-picked songs. i think this combination of his aesthetic, and the way he seemed to care about his music felt like home to me, in a way. my first guitar was an electric guitar, and i'd just play random notes and power chords and whatever else and sing nonsense at the top of my lungs in the basement with my friends forced to endure it. then i was asked to learn to play the drums so my two friends and i could form a band ("LiminaL") -- and i got myself a free drumset (seriously) and started learning. we didn't get very far, but around this time i picked up an acoustic guitar, met elliott, and haven't really turned back since. there were a few short phases in between, when i first got the acoustic before i started learning elliott songs. but around the time i started taking song-writing seriously i got myself all of his albums and opened up my eyes!

 

he often said he was surprised people called his music sad, because it made him happy to play it. his first album he recorded on his own on a four-track in his friend's basement. i had a similar sort of experience, taking my little 4-track down to the basement to find a quiet place to strum away and belt out whatever difficulty i was having. but his music also is sad, because he suffered incessantly. and in tenth grade in particular, i was a ball of suffering. so i could listen to "Needle in the Hay" over and over again and think, "Yep, I feel ya Elliott," although i didn't really, because i never knew what it was like (and still don't, gladly!) to go buy drugs and stick a needle in my arm, and so on. so, "you had the feelings i feared i would / i stuck away from that shit for good / thanks to the memories you kindly shared with me." i was never at any risk of becoming a drug addict, as these lines sort of suggest. but i was at risk of just letting the dramatic despair suffocate me. the worst part was not knowing any way out... it felt completely encompassing. odd thinking this was only a few years ago. the great thing was that as i started breaking out of that a bit, i opened up to elliott in new ways. instead of just identifying with the depressing, i was more open to aspects of his music that inspired me. there were a few things i heard and thought, "oh-- we're allowed to do that...!" and i felt very glad knowing i didn't have to care much for any rules anyone set.

 

so for example, on my album the seventh song is Once More. at the end i play one chord with movement in the bass line on the guitar for about a minute and forty five seconds. it's pretty repetitive and takes a long time (though i also find it quite beautiful :), and during recording, when i finished playing it my engineer/co-producer said, "we're gonna fade that, right?" and i said, "no-- that's the song." it's nothing so out-of-the-ordinary; nothing mind-blowing at all... but tiny little oddities (like playing one chord for two minutes without vocals; or at the beginning of song 9, Dock Dreams, there are 2.5 seconds of silence before the music starts) seemed to confuse him greatly. as though people "don't do that." i don't think i bend anyone's perception of what music is, but i learned a while ago to just make sure to do what is best for the song itself, regardless of what i might be capable of, or what someone else might like, etc, etc. i think elliott was very helpful with this. he seemed very isolated, seeking refuge and voice in his music; i found i could seek the same. oh-- now you've got me listening to Dock Dreams. thank you! haven't listened in a while... there's always more to talk about with Elliott, but hopefully that does a good job beginning to answer your question :)

connecting to desire

thank you, james.  you did answer my question.  I don't think I have never had such an experience with an artist. that's really cool that you were able to learn from him without emulating all the more destructive stuff.  That shows, to me at least, that you were able to see him as a person, not an ideal, and relate to him in a more related way, even if it was just a one-way relationship/mirror.  very interesting.

 

While sitting in the laundromat today, I started reading the book Open to Desire: The Truth about What the Buddha Taught, by Mark Epstein.   I have read Epstein's Going To Pieces without Falling Apart, and though some on this blog (ahem!), might find him a little puffy, I like his accessibility (so important in a relationship!), and am looking forward to reading his take on desire from a buddhist/psychological perspective.  so far he's talked a bit about how the buddha's second noble truth has often been mistranslated as "the cause of suffering is desire" and is much misunderstood and that what the buddha taught was not to renunciate or deny ourselves pleasure, but to know ourselves and find our own freedom through relationships with others.  I'm only on page 14, so I'm sure there's more to it. 

   I'm feeling a need to really look into my relationship with desire, how I identify what my desires are, and my fears around going after them.  Maybe we can add this one to our bookclub list!

 

whoa!

 whoa!

That shows, to me at least, that you were able to see him as a person, not an ideal, and relate to him in a more related way, even if it was just a one-way relationship/mirror.  

that is just the coolest thing. thank you so very much... i remember once when a friend of mine sort of accused me of idealizing him (because i like all of his music...) in a very nasty tone. though she had lots of issues with me over the years. that was a rough friendship. anyway-- just what a super cool thing for you to say. i'm feeling so nice sitting with my relationship with elliott today. for a while i didn't listen to his music, and i've been sharing him with a friend a bit as of late and have been going back through his catalog. but this exchange has been really great; i haven't gone back to the dream or the song or that magazine article in a long while, and it's so nice to be able to and to have such wonderful responses. so one more and then i'll stop: thank you!

 

and about the book club. sheesh. i am unfortunately not a member of our book club, i've got too many books open for my classes as it is! but that sounds like an interesting read, so i hope to check it out one of these days; i think most of my buddhist study over the next few weeks will be researching buddhist nuns in sri lanka (the topic i chose for a project for the end of this semester). i've always thought of the four noble truths as:

  1. there is suffering
  2. there is a cause to suffering (ignorance)
  3. there is the cessation of suffering
  4. there is a path that leads to the cessation of suffering (the noble eightfold path)

at least part of why i like this formulation is because when the cause is considered to be ignorance, this ties in directly to the twelve-link chain of dependent origination, the first link of which is ignorance. i'm not sure what word(s) the buddha uses in the scripture, so i'd love to investigate translation issues there (i wonder if it differs between the Pali and Chinese canons). other formulations i've seen include, "life is suffering," which troubles me because we westerners tend to take that to mean nihilism, which is certainly not the case with buddism (or at least most buddhisms)

 

quick (and absolutely basic... i don't really know what i'm talking about yet-- but that won't stop me!) sanskrit lesson :)

 

the word that is (frequently) translated as "suffering" is, in the original sanskrit, duḥkha. now, kha is the second consonant in the syllabary. there are five "families" of consonants. the first are the gutturals. the first letter of the guttural family (and, consequently, the father of the family) is ka. ka means "who?" so you ask, "who? who?" and the answer is Brahma, the one. the second letter of the guttural family (and, consequently, the mother) is kha. kha is ether, space. so sukha combines su (good, beautiful, sweet) with kha (space), and this means sweet space, or happiness, or ease, etc. conversely duḥkha, which combines dus (evil, difficult, closed) with kha, means closed space, or difficult space, or unhappiness, or suffering, or unsatisfactoriness, and so on. there are, in fact, a huge number of translations for the word duḥkha, and the correct one seems to be the one that includes all of them! so this first noble truth is a complex one, indeed.

 

it's also possible that this beautiful and poetic explanation for the term duḥkha is incorrect. it may combine dus and stha, but since i don't know anything more than that, for now i'm going to stick with the poetic explanation. happiness is sweet space, suffering is defiled space. i dig.

James, I'm so touched by

James, I'm so touched by your appreciation of what I said about your relationship with Elliot.  I can imagine how others might have made fun or seen your interest in him as obsessive, but it does seem that you used him as a teacher and teachers are everywhere. 

I"m so impressed by your sankrit!  Epstein had a similar explanation of the word duhkha, but didn't break it down linguisitically like you just did. I dig. : )

I would like to explore this more, but I gotta go to work!  I might stop by Dr. Wu's today too, if I can get away.  we shall see.

it's been nice dialoguing with you james.

 

 

Is there anyone else out there?

James and Camila

 I have been loving your interchange and the sweet connectedness of your dialogue here!  Just wanted to share that.  :)  

kah

 hey James, love this linguistic break down of the words sukha and duhkha.

What I particularly love is not only the articulate and simple way in which you explained these concepts of happiness and suffering (giving me a little taste of their essence in the recognition) but the meanings themselves: a sweet space and a closed space.

Ahhhh.

What I love about "space" is that it is both a concept and an experience.  It is something we "step into" and can "step out of", and thus it naturally lends itself to being deconstructed (step out) and related to (step in).  And the stepping in or out is a shift in perspective and the shifting is a function of awareness.

Space, as conceptual, both holds and expands.

it holds and as it holds it reflects our holding: our limits, terms and choices (all circumscribing the unique way we are creating our experience).

It expands and as we experience it's expansiveness we experience our limitlessness, freedom.

That kah comes from Brahma, the one (at least in the sequence of the letters), it represents to me the feminine principle of unity in multiplicity, before form, but in the form of formlessness.

When I first learned the four noble truths they were taught as:

1) life is suffering

2) suffering is caused by desire

3) there is a way out of suffering

4) this way is through the 8 fold path...

I like your rendition much better.

Especially because it places ignorance as the cause of our suffering rather than desire, which I find to be secondary with respect to ignorance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

guidance (and learning humility)

 I particularly love [...] the meanings themselves: a sweet space and a closed space.

Ahhhh.

ain't it just gorgeous? when i came upon this i felt like the cloud of dusty confusion was popped, and all the dust dissipated into, well, into the sweet space :) i thought, "why don't they incorporate this into their explanations?!" all these classes and books try to explain 'suffering,' and just confuse. i'm glad you like the break down-- especially because i'll be hopefully sharing plenty more sanskrit lessons as time goes on by.

 

in the formulation of the four noble truths you share, it's interesting that desire was used both as the word to translate that particular link of the 12-link chain of dependent origination, and that desire was taken as the cause of suffering. i think the word "desire" can actually apply to both the 8th and 9th links, with the 9th being sort of a strong(er) desire. if this is true (which it might not be, this is coming from hazy hazy memories...) then that would be pretty cool, actually, because "desire" could sort of directly reference both in one shot (and less directly reference all the other links). i've seen this as a formulation of the four noble truths, too. this is the eighth and/or ninth link of the 12, and since they all influence each other ("dependent origination") and since the ninth link is attachment, i guess it's unwise to get too hooked on this or that formulation :) your attitude here seems to be a bit better guided than mine, in which i sort of clutch after the formulation i think is more "right." so i'm adopting a new perspective on this, in which i prefer one formulation over another merely because it resonates more clearly for me (practice practice practice).

JAMES IS AGRASPING 12 DEPENDENTLY ORIGINATING LINKS

 

James, I'm not sure everyone is familiar with "dependent origination" and the 12 links of dependent origination you're referring to.  So, I thought I would tag along and share my thoughts on these concepts.  My source is my favorite`Nagarjuna's Seventy Stanzas: A Buddhist Psychology of Emptiness,' by David Ross Komito.  A jewel among jewels.

 

The so-called enlightenment of Buddha Gautama was simultaneously his liberation from suffering (dukkha) and his insight into the nature of ultimate reality.  This nature is called dependent origination, the fundamental condition of all phenomena (all that exists), which can simply be stated as:  everything is  dependent on everything else.  This is the understanding that any phenomenon ‘exists’ only because of the ‘existence’ of other phenomena in an interconnected complex of cause and effect.  For example, a human being's existence in any given moment is dependent on the condition of everything else in the world (and indeed the universe) at that moment but, conversely, the condition of everything in the world in that moment depend in an equally significant way on the character and condition of that human being.

 

Everything in the universe is interconnected through the web of cause and effect so that the whole and the parts are mutually interdependent. The character and condition of entities at any given time are intimately connected with the character and condition of all other entities that ONLY superficially may appear to be unconnected or unrelated.

 

According to Matthieu Ricard, “The word “interdependence” is a translation of the Sanskrit pratitya samutpada [perhaps James could tell us more about this term from a stricter Sanskrit perspective], which means “to be by co-emergence” and is usually translated as “dependent origination.”  This can be interpreted as 1) nothing exists on its own and 2) nothing can be its own cause

 

“Any given thing in our world can appear only because it’s connected, conditioned and in turn conditioning, co-present and co-operating in constant transformation.”  This is basic intersubjectivity because it debunks the notion that “things” (self) precede relationships. 

 

And further, the idea of interdependence, though undermining the notion of “reality,” also debunks the idealism of “spirit only” and the nihilism of negation necessarily because interdependence is what allows reality (phenomena) to appear.  That is, “If you can’t speak of real existence, you cannot speak of non-existence either.  Because phenomena have no intrinsic reality, they can have infinite manifestations.”  This is why it is referred to as the “middle way’ in Mahayana Buddhism.

 

From the seventh Dalai lama:

 

Understanding interdependence, we understand emptiness

Understanding emptiness, we understand interdependence.

This is the view that lies in the middle,

And which is beyond the terrifying cliffs of eternalism and nihilism.

 

From this cosmology, we come to the phenomenology and psychology of human existence and enlightenment.  Enlightenment can be defined as the consummate inner wisdom united with infinite compassion, otherwise known as Buddhahood.  It is a perfect understanding of the nature of mind and phenomena.  According to Komito, “Nagarjuna’s formulation of the enlightenment experience is a progressive unfoldment of a single truth about existence, that is, causality and all its implications:”

 

When this is present, that comes to be; from the

Arising of this, that arises.  When this is absent, that

Does not come to be, on the cessation of this, that

Ceases.

 

According to Nagarjuna, once we understand this basic tenet, we then come to the “twelve limbs of dependent origination.”  I personally prefer the term "limb" to "link" but they are synonymous. The twelve limb formulation is compelling in that it templates exquisitely with my understanding of psychoanalytic phenomenology.  The twelve limbs are as follows:

 

1. Ignorance

2. Karmic formations

3. Consciousness

4. Name and form

5. Six sense fields

6. Contact

7. Feelings

8. Craving

9. Grasping

10. Becoming

11. Birth

12. Death, grief, suffering

 

`These twelve limbs represent an interconnected complex of the human being, and so we might call it the “human complex.”  Importantly, though elaborated separately, they cannot be properly understood if viewed as separate entities, for they represent features of a complete field.  Further, it might be considered a closed circle in that every limb depends upon the previous eleven, so ignorance depends on death just as death depends on ignorance!  The twelve limbs are often described as a wheel with the limbs comprising the rim and the three poisons-- delusion (ignorance), attraction (desire), revulsion (hatred)—forming the hub of the wheel.  As we know, this is samsara.  Nirvana is the cessation of the wheel turning.  Nirvana literally means to blow out and suggests dismantling the wheel. 

 

Another way to formulate the twelve limbs is that it represents a dynamic description of the relations between motivation, habits, actions and consequences (Importantly here, motivation is the least developed part of the system outside the explanation of its dependence on the global forces of ignorance, desire, and hatred.  Here psychoanalysis provides a critical link for understanding the motivational dynamics involved in human suffering, particularly in relation to the individual self and relationship). 

 

Ignorance.  Ignorance is the unknowing or erroneous belief in the ultimate nature or ontological status of phenomena.  Ignorance depends on the experiences of a multiplicity of lives and thus depends on birth and death.  In fact, it is the pleasures and sufferings which leave the most profound traces of karmic formations on consciousness. 

 

Karmic formations.  Karmic formations are the traces left by previous actions (karma) and give form to consciousness.  These formations arise in dependence on the first limb, ignorance.  Because of previous experience people interpret things and react to them in the contexts of desires and aversions.  This distorted perception and conception (interpretation) is habitual, thus the “consciousness which arises in dependence on karmic formations is fundamentally distorted by ignorance. 

 

Consciousness.  Consciousness depends on the second limb, karmic formations, or dispositions.  Consciousness is here considered in the abstract without the molding effect of karmic formations.  There are basically three ontological levels of consciousness: Gross consciousness is associated with the activity of the brain; subtle consciousness, what the twelve limbs refers to as the third limb, is the capacity (awareness which is clear and knowing) to know itself, investigate its own nature, and exert free will; extremely subtle consciousness (Pure Awareness) is “fundamental luminosity of mind.”

 

From an epistemological perspective the psychophysical organism (name and form), the embodied self of consciousness who cognizes, has five types of material sense cognition and one type of nonmaterial mental sense cognition (mental consciousness); these are the skandhas of the fourth limb.  Though we can say there are six types of consciousness, there is really only one fundamental consciousness (the Pure Awareness of rigpa).  But, as consciousness always arises and ceases moment by moment in conjunction with a sense organ, and is molded by habits and secondary mental factors (consciousness itself being the first), such as, attention, it is usually referred to as a certain type of “consciousness.”

 

Name and form.  This represents the psychophysical entity called person.  Name identifies consciousness and its various aspects while form identifies matter and its various aspects.  The aggregates (skandhas) of perception, feelings, karmic formations and consciousness are included under “name.” Actual perception occurs when there is contact (sixth limb) between a sense organ, an object in its field and consciousness (third limb).

 

Name and form originate in dependence on the third limb, consciousness.  From one perspective no body (form) could exist without consciousness.  Further, consciousness is never devoid of the influences of previous experience. These experiences leaves traces in memory which mold consciousness. 

 

Six sense fields.  These are the gateways in which consciousness operates, and are the fields eye, nose, taste, touch and mind. 

 

Mind is considered an organ whose objects are concepts, mental images and other sense consciousnesses (e.g., the concept “me”). 

 

Contact.  This is the coming together of an object of perception, a sense organ, and consciousness (e.g., a rose, an eye and visual consciousness). 

 

Feelings.   According to Nagarjuna, there are six classes of feelings, in accordance with the sense organ upon which the feeling depends.  Depend here refers to a prerequisite, for example, the existence of matter is a prerequisite for the existence of a sense organ, which is a prerequisite for a visual field.  Thus, the occurrence of contact between an eye, an object and visual consciousness is a prerequisite for the occurrence of a feeling of pleasure in regards to a pleasing sight.

 

Importantly, we’re not speaking of causality in the Western sense (though it is included) where forces effect things in some mechanistic way.  This causality is dependent origination, which refers to a co-arising, an inseparable interconnection of phenomena the co-dependence of which results in appearance.

 

The phenomenon of feeling arises in dependence on the phenomenon of contact. That the phenomenon of contact arises in the dependence on the phenomenon of a sense field, and that the phenomenon of a sense field depends on the phenomenon of name and form, the psychophysical being. 

 

Craving.  Craving arises in dependence on contact and grasping arises in dependence on craving.  We crave pleasant sense experiences and grasp after their continuation, while we crave the cessation of pain and grasp after its cessation.  This cycle of grasping after the transitory is the nature of our existence; it is the limb of becoming.

 

Becoming.  Becoming depends on craving for sense objects and the pleasures or pains associated with them, especially the grasping after objects and feelings associated with the notion of “I.”  I is the concept which is the object of the sense organ known as “mind.”

 

Birth.  Here is perhaps the most radical thought of Buddhism, that is, the continuum of life in a beginningless series, which depends on our firmly grasping after the continued existence of “I” with its associated sense experiences so that upon cessation of one particular life we obtain another.  Thus birth occurs in dependence upon becoming, and in dependence on birth is death. 

 

Death, grief, suffering.’

 this is gorgeous! thanks

 this is gorgeous! thanks for expanding so much on dependent origination. i like the term 'limb,' too; thats nice. much softer a word. i'm so used to 'link', so i'll have to take 'limb' out for a few test drives. i just wanted to add one thing, since you cover everything else so beautifully. you may have mentioned this, i'm not sure (i'm quite tired today!), but if not: the 12-limbs of dependent origination can be viewed in three ways (or all three simultaneously, etc): 1. the 12 limbs can together represent one lifetime; 2. the 12 limbs can represent three lifetimes, split up and showing the perpetuation of samsara over multiple lifetimes; and 3. the 12-limbs can be viewed as a constant arising at each moment. thus my ignorance leads to my suffering over the course of my life; my ignorance leads to rebirth into this particular body, etc; and my ignorance, attachment, birth and death all arise at once in my grasping after this or that. i'm not sure that's terribly clear, but i'm also not sure i can make it any clearer. anyway, great post Om, thanks a lot. my understanding of dependent origination is a bit rusty, and this post is terrific.

it's clear, james

 Crystal.

I tend to focus on the third of these three (one lifetime, many lifetimes, and now).  

ditto Om.

it twas a lovely evening.

I would love to write more of my reflections but it took Caterina and me hours to get back up to Northern Manhattan (on bus, train and taxi), and we are getting up early tomorrow to get massages at the ananda ashram, just an hour outside the city.  Hopefully we can also find signs of Spring while we are there.

It was a true pleasure to meet you in the flesh and be able to hug you goodnight, James, Noah, Ceili.  Om, it was a rare treat and thanks for organizing the big surprise.  Caterina, see you in the morning.  Can't wait for the real party in May.  the dress rehearsal, although unplanned, was a big hit.  Yay for spontaneity!

love and sweet dreams,

camila (jen)

Sweet dreams to you too!

 I love you!!

Cat(erina, -hy, -herine)

Dress Rehearsal

Though in theatre lore an awful dress rehearsal means a great opening night (and vice versa) I think we'refine.

 

Tonight was wonderful, unexpected, and warm in my heart.

at some point during dinner I realized that Noah was the only one at the table who I had even met before. It surprised me how comfortable it felt to be with you guys, like having dinner with old friends. As Caterina was saying, this sharing to a community is something special.

 

It was a long, cold journey back up here, though, and I must help to bring an Opera into this world tomorrow.

 

Sweet dreams all. friends.

perhaps having finally touched a few of you will influence me to chime in more often.

 

(and ps: next time I'm taking y'all dancing)

do i hear blog tango night?

talk about intimate...

It turns out I like you folks

in the flesh too.  Embodiment is great. ^^ I hope we (and all those who will be there next time!) get to hang out in person more often :)  Gratitude and love to all. 

 

 

 you're not so bad

 you're not so bad yourself, kiddo. though you did a real lousy job serving me salad :P

 

i think the best part for me was that bizarre mix already pointed to... that we already knew each other, and yet also didn't know each other. so it was both an introduction and a reunion, like Caterina says. so there was none of that awkward got-to-get-to-know-you speak since... we already know each other! and yet everything was also discovery since... we didn't yet know each other! cool beans. anyway, all this silliness about "i'd like to see you guys more often..." as though it's not gonna happen. duh! see y'all soon B)

 

and though the food and prosecco are always fabulous, we'll have to meet up some of the time somewhere less noisy!!!! i couldn't hear Noah and Caterina nearly at all, except when i leaned all the way over the middle of the table! so yes-- sweet dreams to you all, and see you all soon (and i mean ALL of you!!!)

please pass the grey poupon

James, I had the same experience with the background noise (I feel so recognized!).  I just had a vision of a big picnic in the park with all the kids on the block when it's warmer--a block party!  We could all take off our smelly socks and lie around on blankets after we drink ourselves silly with prosecco and mayan hot chocolate.

 

partying

 It all sounds very heady and ecstatic.

 yes! that sounds awesome.

 yes! that sounds awesome. i had a quiet picnic in central park the other day; banana+almond butter sandwiches. it was great, but prosecco and company would've made it much better :)

sounds glorious

 

Wow!  I can feel the warmth and love of the night just from reading your words. I can't wait to be able to experience this myself in May.  I can't help but be a little envious the intimacy that is shared here is so unique to anything I've ever experienced and from the sound of it that you'll have experienced as well. 

y tu mama, tambien, revised

 Saw Y tu mama tambien, tonight.  Finally. 

All I want to say is that the scene with the three of them together was so tender, and when the two boys started kissing I was in tears.  I mean real big tears.  Beautiful.  It felt like generosity manifesting in receptivity and openness: their desire participating in her generosity and opening, giving-in, like the waves to the ocean, to one another and to themselves, letting go of restrictions and opening to tenderness.  Sure, they were drunk.  But it felt like the culmination of this intense transformation that had been happening in their relationship during the last days of their trip, and that last night when they stopped competing, stopped playing roles (the yuppie, the peasant), and let their desire open its wings without shame, they opened and relaxed.  Unfortunately, we see how the shame snapped back the next day and they ultimately lost their friendship.  (That opening was heavily dependent on alcohol and her encouragement and comfort with her sexuality which encouraged theirs to flower, but they just didn't "get there" on their own and so knew no way to sustain it).  Bacchus, drugs, sex, and intense intimacy all can create these highs that allow us to open, expand, rattle ourselves free for a while from the chains of our constructed identities.  When the high subsides, we come back to the place we left from, never the same exact place but we return to who we were before the experience (remembering that the experience also came out of who we were/are) and we use the tools we have already in place to understand and integrate the experience, or we discover new ones to help with the integration.  I'm talking about experiences that are chosen (not ones forced upon us, or where there is any element of violation). No no.  Just the ones where we are seeking/inviting our own expansion.  

Not very eloquent tonight, but I just wanted to share how much that scene in particular touched me.  In all my experiences with these unique encounters of opening and receptivity and generosity, the two male participants have never embraced.  I have always felt that for me the experience was about so much openness (and it was, I believe, for my partners) but their not being able to embrace always left me feeling like there was something imbalanced.  not to say that two men should desire to kiss if they aren't into that, and really, I don't mean to dwell on the sexual details of these encounters, only the sweetness of the opening and how there was something missing.

So when I saw that scene I literally clutched my heart (my hand flew to it) and huge tears came, and then I was sobbing, not of sadness but of relief.

It is such a beautiful movie and has stayed with me all day.  I also wanted to point out that I don't think she preferred one guy over another.  She was just reaching out to feel something, perhaps to play and embrace something that was so purely from a shame-free place.  She could give this shame-free experience to these young men.  She was also dying of cancer and hurting from the realization that her marriage was not based on real recognition but a mutual need for affirmation.  She didn't need it anymore.  She was freeing herself and letting herself live.  For those of you who haven't seen it, see it.

I hope I haven't ruined it for you.  It's worth watching even if I have.

:)

 

 

 

tambien

 i've been wanting to see this since Noah (i think) mentioned it some months ago (was it months? sheesh...), and i think i've known "the ending" since then. this used to bother me big time. i'd hate it for someone to "ruin it for me." but i've recently started to realize that it doesn't matter if i know what's going to happen. for example, i still cry my damn heart out at the end of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, even though i know the story in and out by this point. it's still just as powerful. so now my desire to see this film has been renewed, and who knows, maybe i'll actually do something about that! (other than The Band's Visit, i've seen an abominably small number of films in the last six months or so) and i know well that feeling of clutching the hand to the heart. ahhh, yes, i'd like to see this film at least for that feeling. some relief would be nice :)

 

i remember seeing this film on the blockbuster rack back in high school and thinking it was a really great title for a movie. but i never rented it. ahh but if i keep waiting until after midnight to write my essays i'll never have a chance!!!

bien bien

 It was crude and rude of me to give away the ending like that.  But I'm glad you'll still see it and that you've already forgiven me.  ;)

I am so glad this blog didn't exist when I was in school.  I'd still be working on chapter 2 of my thesis.  The 12,378th Chapter 2!!  Suddenly my thesis is about how Dante created his own recognition through writing the gaze of recognition... oh wait, that was what it was about!  It could be re-titled, "When in doubt, write yourself out!" or "Sit, write, love." 

:)

 

 

beautiful reflection on the film Cat

now i really want to go back and see it again.  its been a while and I think i could apprecate it much more fully now.  Thank you. 

 

Also, hi!  :)

 

 

y tu mama

I just recommend that you not watch it with your mother, as I did, when it was still in the theaters.  I mean my mom is very open and all, but it prevented me from really experiencing the tenderness that Cat describes, since I was just waiting for it to be over quickly : )-

LOL!!! CAMILA, AND YOUR MOTHER

is against threesomes?  Y tu mama está agujereando.  How about going with your father, that would have been fun, no?
 

HEY NICO, DAGNABBIT!!! COME ON NOW!

I know you're there.  I have a 4 cheese pizza just for you.  And Emily, where the hell did she go.  She's always on retreats but this is just taking it too far, I'm going through withdrawals.  She is my 4 cheese pizza.

come out, come out wherever you are!

Nico hasn't come out of his winter hibernation yet.  Someone should go bring the 4 cheese pizza to his cave in Queens.

don't know about you, Emily, but your absence is a presence.

 I have now found a new obsession of checking the blog every 20 minutes while I'm at work, but it looks like everyone else prefers to write at 1am.  Now I have to find a new distraction from my spreadsheets, unless I want to have a dialogue with myself. : (

1am in blogsville (happy hour)

 haha!!! i wish i could join you during the day, but i'm away from computers most of the time. i get bummed out when i crave some blog-tivity, only to find i'm all caught up on all the posts. especially knowing that sometimes i feel i don't have the energy or attention to read through all the posts being posted. it's like being out-of-sync. hopefully the rest of the gang'll be back soon enough! 

Slice me and dice me, a four cheese pizza

 

Thank you my friends for calling to me.

      I have held back because I am not certain where to take my seat at the table.  I feel, as I said, a few weeks ago, a shift, a transformation.  It has not been without darkness, without pain, nor without its glory.   Silence has been my window into this space.  I am so keenly reminded by what many of you share about your relationships to your parents that I, too am navigating this shifting relationships between parent and child from a different side.  The talk of mothers and fathers, of breaking free, of forgiving, of getting beyond,  of  the pain of growing up without recognition  has made me pause and look at myself and think about my own role and where I belong now and where I need to be..  I am that mother you speak of – no, not your specific mother but I am “the mother” that person who succeeded or failed, loved too little, loved to much, recognized or failed to recognize, and I am also the person who exists outside that role and who needs to show herself and be recognized, not just by others, but to myself.   The home that I knew for decades is here and not here any longer.  I am living in a different house.   The sounds of children are echoes.  It is time for a new roof, new paint, a reclaiming.  My children no longer exist as I once knew them and I no longer exist as I knew myself.   We have absorbed, changed, shed our skins many times.  My journey now is one of processing the lessons taught by my children, and to relinquish a role that is no longer needed and in many ways ceased to exist the minute it came into existence.  The emotional power of mother is not something I ever thought about as I lived it, but now as that power focuses its eyes and heart in other places, all my muscles ache.  In yoga, my teacher is leading me step by step back into myself from my fingertips to my toes.  There are parts of myself that I forgot existed.   So, as you on your end make peace, accept the disappointments, give birth to yourselves again and again, I, on this end am learning to do the same.  I am meeting myself again.  We, the mother and the children are the ends of the rainbow that will meet to greet each other somewhere in the middle.

    In writing my love letter to James last week,  in feeling myself as mother to this other son that I imagined, I stepped too far and perhaps not far enough.  Did I need to love James so much for his sake or for mine?    Emily, the mother, is a truth.  Every pore, every muscle stretches to love, to rock, to let go.  It is not a role I applied for, trained for, but one that came into being the minute love was unconditional.  But the letting go – a part of the condition of the unconditional - is the biggest challenge of all.  It is a looking back, a reflection of years spent, of years  being “mother” ,cradling that undeniable love for other that is so profound that it pulled me to my feet when I wanted to just lie down  and continues to pull me to my knees in gratitude for the lives of these others..  All else in my life: the work, the writing, the other parts of self were there, working, but all, in service to this role.  And then, it is time to let go,, but you hang on, then let go, and define and redefine – it is a new world, a new discovery . You don’t do it alone – the children do it with you or against you, but as the mother, I must open my arms again and again, to let go; to surrender..  You must go.   I must go.   A mother, I am, yes, always, but like the child who becomes the adult, I, the mother must find myself as a person in entirety – to let go of the very things I hold dearest, the lives that are the holiest of holy, to give up the agenda for the other and learn to step out again. 

    I am an invited guest into my children’s lives.  I want to understand and respect this new space.   My children are watching me learn how to walk.   In gratitude for them and for all of you.  We are all someone's child.  We are each other's children.  With love.

 

YOUR SLICED AND DICED, EMILY

Beautiful post, I read it three times.  I'm in love with your transformation.  Thank you for sharing.  May you continue the journey with your back to the wind.

No Shit....

About a half hour ago the wonderful, wild, dancing, deliciously prancing wind just came to town.  It's cleanl it's cool, it's irratic.  The wind chime is singing to the night.  The window is wide open.   Behind my back.   Behind my back.   The window is open.  The wind, the wind, the wind; the wind in the window, behind my back.  Behind my back, the wind.

hello emily :)

 Emily, i'm glad silence has been your window to this space, and that you have come back with this post. i'm grateful for your wisdom, your curiosity, your humility and your honesty. and then of course there is your love. this post of yours is a real treasure for me, and i hope i'm reading it with the care it deserves. the place from which you speak feels both close to and far from my experience; in part it just feels close because you bring me so much closer to that far away place (you are speaking of your experience of being mother, and also of your experience needing to "find [yourself] as a person in entirety.") trés jolie. very beautiful.

Holy Shit, Emily

 You fuckin' rock!

This is one of the coolest things I have ever read... Wow!!

It feels like an entirely new sort of narrative to me, an entirely new sort of subjectivity and voice.  I have always known you to be the mother, but have also thought of you as person, as woman and child, as lover, wife and friend, but now, as you are leaning into finding the "entirety" of yourself as a person, and of letting go of the identities that you've held onto, you are affirming yourself even deeper through this gorgeous and unique perspective of Mother.  

I have never heard this voice before.  I have never had the possibility to know this voice before.  

I love that you are using yoga to go into the parts of yourself you never knew were there.  I love that you bring the metaphors of stretching and breathing and aching muscles (oh, they aren't metaphors?) into this experience of reaching in and out through your self.  How can I tap into you right now?

I feel like you're inviting me into a gorgeous new current, that leads to your ocean, and this current is through motherhood and it leads to the Mother.  I feel, through your affirmation of yourself and experience as mother and as woman wanting to grow beyond and let go, through your desire to re-discover new pathways of your freedom, like you are shining light into a consciousness I've never seen or experienced but that feels entirely safe and expansive.

I want more.  I just want to ask you a question but I don't know how to form it.

Can I ever love like you?  If I never have children, can I ever wake up to service like you and love so unconditionally?  

I haven't leaned in years into the arms of a mother, haven't known the simplicity of really letting go.. except in the moments when I've given myself that love and permission. So I have known it!  I have, I do, but so rarely, and it comes through so much effort.  Except in sleep, where there's no effort. Perhaps this is why I love sleeping so much.  Oh, but to wake up and BE the mother, to rise and know that what you are doing you are doing because you love.  I want to blow bubbles on my pillow tonight and wake up loving.

 

 

Holy shit to you too Caterina!

Thank you so much for your reply to my post about being a mother.   You really made me smile with your question: "Can I ever love like you? " because, I know, you already do.   In some ways it has nothing to do with actually having " a child," although children certainly create a different space for love.  But I know, even after all my early bitching and groaning  about your relationship with your two friends in Italy ( see how that still resonates for me) that you were operating from that kind of all powerful, expansive, desire to love and to nurture and really give something.  Loving is mother and is father.  Except for the actually giving birth part, I think everyone, male and female can love like a mother.

 

My feelings of love were always unwieldy and implosive.   Today, still, I fall so deeply in love  with people who I meet, who I can just see into – you know, when you look at someone, even on the subway, and you  can see past everything, see that their disappointments, sorrows, their desires are beating just the same as yours ,and you know if only you had the chance to give them your gifts, it could  make the difference.  It began for me, not just wanting love, but wanting to save someone with love.  Myself, really. I always believed that love was the only thing that could keep me alive.  But I think, love also needs a container, oddly enough, to be able to expand freely and without destructive impulse.  If I did not find someone like Arnold as I did, when I was young, I am positive that I would have self destructed before I had the time or the skills to put my love to use in the world in any constructive way.  I needed boundaries.   It also took 12 years of marriage before I wanted a child.   I don’t think there was anyone in my life who ever thought I would make that decision (except a bishop I happened to meet in a garden in Israel).  But it was only about five years ago, when I first worked with Frank, my teacher, who is a man with so much presence and compassion that I felt his complete attention even in a room of a  hundred other people who were also feeling his complete attention,  that I felt that I could see" with my heart" what  was possible.  It was his presence, not just his words, that made me believe that anything within myself was possible.   Through him, I saw the clearing.  I saw a reflection.  He is me and I am him and yet we are completely two.  For me it was no less, just two people  understanding, knowing nearly nothing of each other's day to day lives, yet I felt so known and felt that I knew him.  I reached the point where I not only saw his great strength but also his vulnerabillities and then, in a very quiet way, I knew we were equals and I could call him my teacher, my friend.  That's when I really began racing home to myself.  It was the right time and place for me to understand.  I was already preparing for the letting go of my children which I always knew would be my deepest challenge.  It was the act of simulataneously letting my sister go as well.  Frank's teachings about death and dying within Buddhist practice gave me the space to mourn and let go. 

 

I don't look back and say, i wish I could have completed that circle earlier.  Of course, if I had, my life would be different and I wouldn't be who i am now.  But then, I wouldn't know this moment.

 

 You’ve got it Cat.  You know you do.  It may be swirling, it may be lost at times, but it is never far. When you see it, when you want it,  then it becomes.   I will steal from a line from Om in a post to me: I know that you know that you know.  And I know that you know that I know..... or something like this.   You and I and love - there is no difference.   Kisses to you.  A big one!   And many hugs, until we meet.....

cat and em

I just want to say that this is such a beautiful exchange between you two about such beautiful topics: love, mothering, self-love, self-mothering, personal growth and all that good stuff.  It  seems that you have a lot in common in the feeling your feelings department.  It's so cool to witness your connecting and the ability of you both to challenge each other in your sharing.  you are both lovers, mothers and teachers to us all.

 

 

Camila

Can we make it a threesome? 

oh my god!

I just almost peed my pants, em!

I'm a little shy, but if you warm me up with a little prosecco or red wine, I'm game!

 

Emily

 ahhhhh...

and the light was so bright today, tears streaming down my face,

and listening to more interviews, one of a scholar whose life work and passion has led her to see such beautiful and deeply considered reflections on history and what cannot be explained, and more tears streaming, and I know that your post of yesterday had the effect of opening my heart to this light.

Great big HUG to you and me and this blog.

And I still love those boys. :)  

 

"Speak to us of Children"

Dear Emily. I read this post two nights ago, but it was brought fresh to my mind yesterday, and I wanted to share with you how and why this happened.

 

I recently bought a copy of The Prophet by Khalil Gibran. I was reading it on the train to school yesterday, and I came to a passage that begins:

"And a woman who held a babe against her bosom said, Speak to us of Children."

When I came to this, the recent conversations here about the nature of the parent-child relationship sprang to mind, especially the beautiful way you describe the balancing act of motherhood. As a young woman I am at times too aware of my fertility and my own biological and spiritual longing for a child (though my rational mind wants nothing less right now). I am on the fence when it comes to having my own children, so when the topic is raised, I try to pay close attention. Here is the rest of the passage, which I share with you and everyone else, because it moved me and can lend us all some insight into the beauty and difficulty of this relationship.

"And he said:

Your children are not your children.

They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.

They come through you but not from you,

And though they are with you they belong not to you.

 

"You may give them your love but not your thoughts,

For they have their own thoughts.

You may house their bodies but not their souls,

For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, even in your dreams.

You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you,

For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

 

"You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.

Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;

For even as He loves the arrow that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable."

 

(P.S. I have yet to finish the rest of the book but I already wish I could share every word with you all. If you have read it, then you know what I mean. If you haven't, though I have yet to finish it, I would suggest investing in a copy. It's very short, but the sections are like meditations, they stick with you and you can only ingest so much at once....)

the Prophet

Sophie,  thank your for reminding me of that book.  I have not read it in decades.  I read it when I was in my early twenties and I gave a copy to my mother, which she still has.  I must read it again.  A hug to you - new blog friend.

Thanks for the shout out,

Thanks for the shout out, Camila.  You're right, I feel more inclined to post at night.  Maybe it is a nocturnal thing.  But I know what you mean about spreadsheets, they suck.

 

Maybe you can follow Devils hockey.  So much more interesting!  Especially now that the playoffs are starting.

I am here, I am here.  Just

I am here, I am here.  Just busy with other things, and I meant to post earlier today but work has been rough.

 

I like pizza, but too much cheese and not enough tomato sauce is not my style.  Give me lots of sauce and I am very happy.

 

As for my cave, it is big and roomy and the rent is due already!  Yikes!  Caves are not cheap these days.  But I don't think I have been too cavernous lately, Om, just keeping occupied with other things.

 

I'll give you a shout!

so...your response begs the question, what have you been busy with, Nico?

don't hold out on us. you are accountable to this group.  you made a committment.  didn't you read the contract?  you must share all personal insights, struggles, and glories on this blog.  I expect a full report by the morning.

 

 

Well, that's the funny

Well, that's the funny thing, Camila, time just flies from me.  I get up, do a few things like get coffee, run some errands, watch a little tv, workout, go to work, come home, get ready for bed, do my back exercises and then go to sleep.  Then it starts all over again.  And when I don't work, all the other things just grow to take up the day.

 

And time just flies.

 

How about you, how do you spend your days these days?

Good T

Was wandering around the grocery store today and saw some OM tea on the shelf.  Gentle green, a bit of cucumber, a bit pricey, but couldn't resist.  Boiled up a cup, quite delicious.  I'll think I'll have some Om in the morning as well.

goddammit!!

 

 

 

I just lost a whole long post that I wrote too!  GRRRRR! steaming pile of shit!

Ok, here it is take 2. 

 

 

It is interesting that you mention routine, Nico, as it relates to the theme of my yoga class last night.   Now bear with me as I'm far from an expert on these things, but I wanted to make a connection to this concept of time and habits, if I can actually organize my thoughts so early in the morning.  My teacher was talking about samskara and mudra.   I'm not so clear on the meanings of each so much (james, help me out with the sanskrit), but basically he summarized them both as being impressions.   He described samskara as being our life circumstances that we don't choose (where and to whom we are born, etc). However, Wikipedia defines it as sacraments, sacrifices, and rituals relating to rites of passage mark the various stages of the Human life and to signify entry to a particular Ashrama. All Human beings, especially the Dvija or twice-born are required to perform a number of sacrifices with oblations for Gods, Ancestors and Guardians in accordance with the Vedic dictums for a Dharmic or righteous life.  ok this is a little different, but it can be loosely interpreted (for a western and secular mind) as rituals and rites of passage that are chosen for you by others.

  My teacher described mudras as being the things we create for ourselves that leave an imprint. According to Wikipedia  Mudrā  is a 'spiritual gesture' and energetic 'seal of authenticity'.   The most commonly recognized mudra is anjali mudra, the pressing of the hands together in front of the heart to symbolize offering and is often used as a form of salutation.   I think what my teacher was trying to impress upon on, was this idea of how we have the power to make an imprint, he used the image of an embossing seal used on old-fashioned letters.  we are the embosser used to make the seal, the wax, and the seal that is left in the wax.  

He mentioned that a student of his who is a brain scientist of some sort told him depression can be alleviated through routine.  I'm not sure if I believe this in totality, but he was making the point that if you feel like shit, and you are not eating or sleeping well, you can make the decision to eat three meals a day and go to bed at the same time each day, and it will help. The body and mind are soothed by routine.  It's also a bit like doing the dishes, attending to your needs.

Thich Nhat Hanh talks about cultivating mindfulness through daily mundane tasks, such as doing the dishes, walking, eating, cooking, making yourself a cup of tea.  We are so often on auto-pilot that we don't stop to go inside, be grateful, check in with ourselves, etc.  I did this at a retreat I attended with him in October, and even though I haven't kept up the daily practice, after 6 months, I still feel the deep impression it's left on me.  Even my vocally anti-buddhist yoga teacher has commented on the change he's noticed in my practice since then, especially in meditation.  

I have a very jealous attachment to my morning routine of coffee, watching or listening to Democracy Now!, checking email (and now the blog).  I used to practice yoga in the mornings, but that has fallen away.  Sometimes I feel like this is a problem and that I need to be less rigid, more spontaneous, etc., and other times I like that I can start my day in a non-rushed, relaxed way.  My mother stayed over last week and commented on how much she enjoyed staying with me since she never has such laid back mornings.  I asked her why and she said there's always so much to do. I said, Mom, you are retired now, you can create the morning that you want for yourself. 

 

By the way, Nico, I'm not satisfied with your report.  What are you feeling? what's going on in that big brain of yours?  Have any good dreams lately?

 

 

Anti-buddhist yoga teacher

Camila, I would love to hear more about this.   The two seem connected, married in so many ways.  What are his issues?

I am about to take have my mid morning ritual - tea.  Om tea today.   I am deliciously happy in my slower pace, but I need to find a way to celebrate the mundane tasks of work. 

mudra, samskara

i had to take a few moments to sort this out. buddhism, since all the terms come originally from the sanskrit, uses many of the terms also found in various hindu school. buddhism emerged out of hinduism. the buddha, when he was just siddhartha gautama, was what is called a shramana-- a renouncer. more on that another time.

 

your teacher's image was appropriate, because mudra literally is a seal, a wax seal. it refers both to the instrument used to make the seal, and to the seal itself. in vajrayana buddhism (i think this practice either originated in Tibet, or at least is most commonly now found in Tibetan buddhism), there is a meditation practice called mahamudra: great seal. the way i learned about mahamudra, at least, it's sort of like a step-ladder technique. one begins my meditating on the teachings of the so-called lower schools. one accepts their teachings fully and then applies wisdom, discovering what is insufficient about the lower teaching. this opens one to a deeper realization of emptiness. one moves up the rung to the next highest school. it's funny, actually. i'm currently reading The Second Sex (which is oh-so-amazing) and SImone de Beauvoir does something similar in the opening few chapters. e.g, she gives biological materialism ("anatomy is destiny") a full run for it's money. she takes it all the way to the extreme to the sort of worst-case-scenario. she let's the theory impress upon her and the reader. and then after all of this, she applies wisdom and shows why even this extreme account of biological materialism doesn't account for the status of woman as Other. whoa.

 

samskara, on the other hand, i also had to think about for a moment, especially when i read your description of the vedic rituals. i for some reason thought that you were talking about buddhist samskara, which Om actually gave a good introductory look at, because samskara in buddhism ("mental/karmic formations") are the second of the 12-limbs of dependent origination.

Karmic formations.  Karmic formations are the traces left by previous actions (karma) and give form to consciousness.  These formations arise in dependence on the first limb, ignorance.  Because of previous experience people interpret things and react to them in the contexts of desires and aversions.  This distorted perception and conception (interpretation) is habitual, thus the “consciousness which arises in dependence on karmic formations is fundamentally distorted by ignorance.

as far as the word itself in sanskrit... i've not yet learned anything about this word, but i can look in my lexicon for at least a bit of a definition. i'm trying to figure out where your teacher's notion of "impression" came from... it seems, from the famous monier-williams lexicon at least, to refer mostly those rituals you speak of: purificatory rites, sanctifying ceremonies, and so on. i believe your teacher is speaking particularly of the Vaiśeṣika view. this is a school of hinduism  with a really interesting view of the cosmos. it's funny, with buddhism we're all talking about dependent origination; in vaishesika, each of the objects in the world has its own independent reality absolutely outside of and separate from us.  according to vaishesika there are seven categories making up reality: substance, quality, action, universality, particularity, a relation of inherence, and absence/negation. i'd have to do some serious refresher reading (i've pulled out a bunch of books to find where samskara fits in!) to give a detailed account of each, but for now it will be sufficient to say that samskara is one of the 24 qualities. it essentially means, to vaishesika, memory. it's the impression on the mind of a former state of existence. the buddhist notion must have developed out of this take on the word samskara. i wonder how a word meaning purifying, cleansing, preparing, came to mean this sort of mental impression. interesting stuff.

 

so anyway, hope that was helpful. i'm so sorry to hear you lost your post, too. it's the worst. but i really dig this post and would like to live vicariously through your meeting with thay! can you tell us more about that? i hear he's the funniest guy... i didn't make that connection between what he says about dishes and this idea of routine, but there it is. i wouldn't have expected to be so taken by the idea of routine. not too long ago i thought routine was a major pitfall. lately i've been thinking of routine as a necessary way of interacting with the world. but here you're offering this notion of a more fully conscious routine-- that's so cool. it is like Noah's dish-washing. it's funny... i haven't recognized it, but this is what i do with school. i am always excited for school to return, not as much for the classes as for having a daily routine. i always muck that up, though, by staying up late and doing my homework in a totally unstructured way :P

 

thank you for sharing this! keep it coming, i'm learning much. and when someday in the possibly distant future, i learn about the linguistic origins of these two words, i'll be sure to share this with you. perhaps the coolest thing about sanskrit is that it so consciously considers itself an extended family. there are a multitude of verbal roots (datu-s) which never appear in the written language, but which are, well, just like roots under the soil. you can see all sorts of connections between words by finding the way they sprout from various roots. so i pointed to the word 'pa' in a post to Caterina last night. nrpah means king, but literally it means people-protector. nr, refers to people, and pa, which signifies father, means protector. another word for king is bhumipah, earth-protector.

rajanaka

 

I have to admit, I was kind of afraid to even bring up the topic of mudras and samskara, since I don't really have a tight grasp of any of these concepts and  I haven't studied Buddhism as intensely as you and Om, and some other people on this blog have and find all these different layers and limbs a little overwhelming.  I was never a very ordered thinker.  The yoga philosophy I have been exposed to in recent years has a very different take on some of the ancient definitions and practices.  Caterina has been practicing and studying this with me and probably can explain this stuff a lot better than I can, so please chime in if you want.  I have a hard time putting these ideas into words (i'm used to just listening to others talk about it), so it's helpful to write this down here.  I hope you all don't mind.  It’s a huge topic and there are many lacunae in my understanding.  Our teacher, Eric, was coming from a Rajanakan perspective, when he was talking about samskara, which is often also described as a scar, but in a good way. It’s a reminder. I’m not sure how it links back to the Buddhist concepts, or if I’m really describing this correctly. That being said, Rajanakanism is a tantric household tradition that comes out of Southern India through Kasmir Shivism and has been brought to the west by a professor named Douglas Brooks, who studied and lived in India with his teacher for many years.  There isn't much written about it, as it is an oral tradition, but it is based on many of the scriptures that all this other stuff is.  One of the major tenets, or pillar, of Rajanakanism (or perhaps just tantric in general), is what they call Radical Affirmation, which is the idea that everything is auspicious.  We all have everything we need, but alignment gives things their value. There is enough and there will be more.    The 2nd pillar is about Freedom and says that the universe is truly open-ended. Freedom is our nature; we don’t have to get it. This also means that everyone else is free too, so we have to live at the peril of others’ choices.  However, we can choose how we respond. A third tenet is embodiment. This basically has to do with the concept of non-duality. It has been explained to me in the following way:  the classical yoga dualist system says that the body/material (prakarti) is seen as a problem and spirit (purusha)the ideal that must be reached by getting the body out of the way. The assumption is that life is a problem and the solution is yoga as discipline. Later, the Advayta Vedanta yogis came along (around 750 b.c.) with a non-dualist system and said everything is spirit and that anything that you experience as difference is an error. The strategy of yoga, then, is to see the error—everything is one, everything is purusha/ englightenment. Accordiing to my teachers, both of these traditions start with the philosophy that life is inherently a problem: either you separate the two or everything is wrong or an illusion. The tantrica texts first emerged in the 6-8th century c.e. and were all-inclusive. They said that both the classical yoga and advayta vendanta yoga traditions are right. Worldliness and difference matter and so does one-ness. You can’t have one without the other. They say that life and embodiment are not wrong, it’s the only thing that spirit does. It has to be embodied, it’s never without form, including emotions, mind, suffering. All is divine.  You don’t have to get rid of anger and other negative emotions: you need to align it.  The Rajanaka (“little prince”) tradition emphasizes diversity. We have sovereignty over ourselves.  Abhi Navagupta, who was a non-renunciate, wrote about it in 950-1050 c.e.  It was a householder tradition of yogis, as opposed to monastic tradition that emphasized living in the everyday world.  Enlightenment didn’t have to be outside everyday experience.   I practice Anusara yoga, which is based on a broad tantric vision brought to an asana practice. It’s about having fun with it in the body and recognizes that everything can be experienced in the body. Desire in many traditions is a problem, but in tantric it’s part of your essential nature. It’s your asset. You just have to decide what you really want.   Again, I haven’t studied enough of other traditions to be able to say affirmatively how they are different or similar to this.  I have had some difficulties with the ways in which some of my yoga teachers who are heavily influenced by the Rajanakan philosophy and study closely with Douglas Brooks, seem to “dis” other traditions without fully understanding them or explaining themselves. I think some of them have an erroneous idea of the Buddhist concept of emptiness and see it as contrary to the tantric idea of “fullness”. I don’t know exactly.  I'm from the point of view that it's good to experience all types of traditions and I can't ever imagine fully subscribing to one thing, although I dig a lot of the stuff I'm learning.  I hope this made sense.  It truly does help to write this all down.

 

camila, this is so so cool.

camila, this is so so cool. i've not heard of rajanaka before -- which makes sense, since it's an oral tradition and all. i'm quite familiar with prakṛti and puruṣa (this was developed very early on in the sāṃkhya school, which is often seen as going hand-in-hand with the yogic tradition), but i'm very happy to be learning all this new stuff. i've only glossed the surface of the hindu and buddhist universes, which are vast indeed (especially hinduism-- sheesh!). your post certainly does make sense, and it's very very interesting to me. i certainly want to explore this more (though, perhaps somewhere else on the blog, since we're heading into skinnysville here:) i love this notion of alignment. and i'm definitely curious about the fullness vs. emptiness question. if i were forced to guess based on what you've written, i would guess that your teachers are referring to the seeming contradiction between, say, the advaita vedantic notion of One, and the buddhist response to this: "One what?" i believe all hindu schools end up asserting entity, asserting some independent existent, even if the only Real (capital R!) existent is One, Brahman. (for example, i mentioned vaiśeṣika-- they assert a plurality of independent existents... buddhism's response, i think, would be, "how do they interact with one another?") the radical move the buddha made was to say that there is no isolated, independent, inherent existence. this is a really rough-n-ready look at this, and i'm not even sure that's what your teachers are talking about, but i got excited by your post and just started typing away :O

Righteous!

 This is beautifully stated, Camila.

Thanks for the reminds, all of these.

So much to respond to, to discuss, about Radical affirmation, Freedom, embodiment..., (were there other "pillars"?) so much that we actively contemplate in our practice. It would be fun to begin to integrate and compare some of these teachings we've been getting with the buddhist perspective, which I know you and i both sense are beautifully compatible, especially when seen through the process-based, intimacy centered, psychological practice we share and love.

 

wow-- durga! mudra!

 i took a trip to the rubin museum of art the other day and saw a simply incredible sculpture of Durga, a Hindu goddess i had not yet known about. she is frequently depicted performing various mudras-- in this case meaning hand-gestures. each hand, each finger is a center of energy, and the different mudras represent various energies and meanings. anyway, she's a totally amazing and important goddess, and i definitely recommend reading up on her a bit. i want to start to explore her mythology. so here's a photo of the sculpture, and i definitely recommend checking out the Rubin's website (and the museum! so great!), and here's the blurb from the Rubin on the sculpture itself: 

 

"Depicting Durga in her most famous narrative-- slaying the buffalo demon, Mahisha-- this multi-limbed form of the goddess is a sculptural masterpiece. Flanked by two slain demons, Durga is shown grasping with her lower left hand the head of the demon that emerges from the animal that she has just decapitated. The deity's dynamism-- especially in this fearsome, all-powerful form-- is balanced by the delicacy of her features, adornments, and calm expression. Durga's right leg, raised above the ground and extended in an active lunging post, is supported by her animal companion (vahana), the lion, who bends with her weight. The style of her large hoop earrings and patterned wrapped skirt (dhoti) is characteristically Newar in design."

James, a story for you!

Two days before you posted your Durga experience, a fiend of mine gave me a card depicting Durga.  The following story is taken out of the children's book called "The Little Book of Hindu deities" by Sanjay Patel.  The anti-buddhist teacher told me about it. ;)

Durga

When the buffalo demon Mahish – rumored to be an invincible giant – and his army of demons threatened to push the gods aout of heaven, the gods called a meeting to discuss how to get rid of him.  Shiva suggested each god contribute a portion of his or her power to create a whole new being, the result of which was a new goddess whose face reflected the light of Shiva and who had six arms from Lord Vishnu and two feet from Lord Brahma. 

And so Durga was born, a powerful and pretty goddess.  She is good-looking and fierce – a lethal combination!

Before facing Mahish, Durga equipped herself with a sword, a club and a chakra (discus).  A fearless warrior, she easily defeated Mahish and restored balance to the world of the gods. With the name Durga, which means “invincible” in Sanskrit, she was kind of a shoe-in. In India, people celebrate Durga’s victory over Mahish in one of their most important festivals, Durga Puja, which lasts ten days.  But Durga isn’t all fighting and injustice, she brings kindness and harmony.  She is known to feed both people and animals, and is partial to riding around on big tigers or lions.  And Durga is never afraid, not even in the dark.

  thanks, Nadine! i have to

 

thanks, Nadine! i have to get me a copy of this....

JAMES AND CAMILA ARE SAMSKARA MUDRA HEADS

 

When taken together, samskara and mudra, the metaphors of vehicle and destination come to mind.   In an uncomplicated way, I think your teacher was attempting to impress on you the mind’s capacity to realize both its own innate nature and the ultimate nature of reality, which we might call Mahamudra, the great seal of emptiness.  To reach the enlightened Buddhamind, one has to purify negative karma, so that these samskaras, or karmic formations will be “blown out” (nirvana).  As James stated, there are a progressive set of practices or stages of meditation practices that gradually bring one closer and closer to Realization. 

 

I think it most important to think about samskara, or karmic formations, and mudra within a psychological context for two reasons: 1) it contextualizes spiritual practice in ways most fundamental to our functioning in the world of self-experience and relationship; and 2) it values the psychological as the prime mover of spiritual development.  When I integrate karmic formations into psychoanalytic language, for example, psychoanalytic language itself becomes elevated to a more integral (inclusive, complex) perspective.  Conversely, spiritual practice and development are rendered less esoteric; indeed, they become appropriated to one’s daily life and experience. 

but we must remember that

but we must remember that this is an anti-buddhist yoga teacher :P:P:P he might get angry if he knew we were using buddhism to explore the terms he chose..........!!

I agree, om.  and couldn't

I agree, om.  and couldn't have said it better, I could never have a spiritual practice on its own that did not include a deep steeping in the psychological and vice versa.  See?  It's non-dualist : ) As I have mentioned elsewhere this blog, I believe that my yoga practice and therapy have informed and enhanced one another amazingly and I am eternally grateful for them both. 

I am still not that clear about the karmic formations you speak of, but I understand how negative impressions of what has happened to us historically can continue to play themselves out in our lives unless we "purify" them, or at least contextualize them for ourselves.

that being said, the tradition I have been studying in yoga never talks about different stages and steps to reach enlightenment, for they believe that we are already there.   Yoga doesn't make you divine, you are already divine.  Yoga is the expression of the divine within that we can experience by stepping into our desires.  The Rajanakans say that what we don't need will fall away when we use principled choice and discernment (i.e. not connecting to something because it does not serve me).  This seems very similar to a psychological approach to self-realization.

PRINCIPLED CHOICE AND DISCERNMENT

 

I love this, Camila.  Have I ever told you that discernment is one of my favorite words?  According to Nagarjuna, as ennumerated by David Ross Komito, discernment is a mental factor (descriptions of how consciousness  functions), which is under the rubric of cognition (the process of consciousness which selects  specific aspects out of the overall perceptual field) -- which includes perception and conceptualization and mental factors.

 

To fully understand mental factors, we need to mention karmic formation.  Karmic formation we said are the traces of previous actions (including emotions) as manifested in habits and dispositions (including genetic material, intelligence  and capacities for spiritual awareness, race, gender, etc.) and obviously play an enormous role in mental factors necessarily because those forms qua karmic traces arise in dependence on ignorance and control cognition—in this sense control means distorting  perception and conception by overestimating aversive and attractive aspects of  phenomena.  Though some might argue whether nothing could exist without consciousness, it is safe to say that human beings could not exist without consciousness, because without consciousness they would be dead.  Yet, it is not a raw consciousness, that is, consciousness without traces of previous  experiences.  This is the continuity of consciousness, and thus consciousness is dependent on karmic formation, that is, previous experience. 

 

To follow, karmic formation is dependent on the psychophysical entity we call a human being.  This is the most interesting piece because it is here where matter meets “name,” or mind, the immaterial aspects of human consciousness, such as, feeling, perception, karmic formation and consciousness.  In one more turn, the six sense fields, or organs of perception, including the five organs and mind (the objects of mind are concepts, mental images and other sense consciousnesses) are dependent on name and form necessarily because, without matter, organs of perception would not exist and, without mind, the immaterial aspects of human consciousness would not exist.  So, now we have the six sense fields, matter and the immaterial aspects of consciousness (mind), consciousness, karmic formations, and ignorance.  

 

A good time to take a look at some mental factors.  It is impossible to talk about cognizance without contact.  Contact is the moment when a perceptual object, a sense organ (which could be mind) and primary consciousness meet and establish cognition.  Feeling is also a cognition arising in dependence of consciousness coming into contact with an object.  Intention is the orienting of consciousness to the field of perception.  Some Buddhists describe it as karma itself, which I find compelling because it is based on the principle of activity itself.  Telos and logos come to mind here.   Attention is the focusing of consciousness on specific aspects of the general field of perception.  Discernment, my favorite, identifies and discriminates specific aspects of the general field as being one thing and not another.  Aspiration is taking a strong interest  of aspects of a field. Appreciation is stabilizing attention.  Recollection is repeated turning to attention.  Concentration is one-pointed fixing of attention.  Intelligence/Wisdom examines the characteristics of the value of aspects being attended to.  These mental factors (and there are many others) function together in the creation of an appearing object!!!  Modernity as recapitulated Buddhism as a recapitulated Vedantic aesthetic or ontology in the ever-unfolding phenomenology of psycholudicrous human experience.

 

what we don't need will

what we don't need will fall away

 

of course. our body works that way also. each thing in our bodies are becuase we need them.

and it's true that we are already divine. that is how we were created (biblicaly).
"they believe you are already there" : this is similar to neville (spritualist philospher (maybe?) ) his approach is that when we desire something we should be in it, and once we're in it we'll recieve it. for example the emotion of washing the dishes (just because i really like the past talk about this subject) if we want to wash the dishes, and really can't bring our bodies to do so, our solution would be to imagine what we'd feel after the dishes were washed. focus on that feeling, and really feel it. according to neville your dishes will already be washed. (this is the part that's a little out there, and doesn't connect the physical activity of the actual washing of the dishes)- so to add to it it would just be easier to wash the dishes, because you have already washed them in your mind.

 

Wow, Camila

What a post.  Thank you.  It is a struggle for me too keeping routine and spontaneauty in balance.  Some days I love it and others I hate it.  I guess I should be seeking more experiences that evoke more feelings.  So that those moments become imprinted in me.

 

what's going on in my big head?

 

i oscillate between anger, sadness, shame and guilt - the four horsemen of doom!  i feel angry for being angry and stuck.  i feel guilt for some things i have done and not done, and then i feel shame when expressing and fulfilling my needs.  it all gets better when i remember not to judge myself and just experience.  but the flareups get to me.

getting better.... gimme

getting better....

gimme some more of that good stuff.  what else is going on in that big processor?

I guess I should be seeking more experiences that evoke more feelings.  So that those moments become imprinted in me.

 what do you mean by this?  do you feel that you avoid experiencing emotionally evocative things? if so, why?

 

 

Hmmm!

I have to be prepared to open up in different situations.  this means being aware of prejudices and transferences.  Sometimes I get lost in my head for days on end, only to realize that I have not really connected to anybody in a meaningful way where ideas and feelings are explored.  it makes me sad when i reflect on it, but then i also realize it is hard to find people as aware as the ones that inhabit this hive!

 

anyway, what's all this dish washing saga about.  i don't get it because i love to do the dishes!  it is so mechanical, the water is so soothing, and the suds just tearing up the grease - pure bliss.  gimme that hard, baked in grease and i'll break it down to size and watch it drain down the sewers!

 

ps  to avoid losing a long post, i select all - ctrl A, and copy - ctrl C.  then i hit post.  this way even if an error happens, the text is in the clipboard of the computer and you can just paste - ctrl V.  V as in Vinny!

nicamila

i'm digging this back-n-forth between you, camila and Nico. i love the way it's unraveling, like a ball of yarn when a kitten (or when I) play with it... tumbling over itself and making a big happy fun mess.

 

also, i'm very sorry to say, when i lost my big post it wasn't because the site messed up. it was because i accidentally hit the "back" button, and erased everything while i was in the middle of writing. i don't know exactly how i did that... i've done it before. i'll try to remember to copy all the text intermittently when i'm in the middle of a long response from now on. thanks!

pulling at that thread

I love the word unravel. Is it possible to say ravel? 

I'm trying to pull something out of our dear Nico who, in his Chilean stubbornly way, keeps throwing me crumbs, when I know there's a whole sandwich with lots of mayo and ketchup in there...  Am I mixing too many metaphors? No matter, we are getting somewhere here.

Sometimes I get lost in my head for days on end, only to realize that I have not really connected to anybody in a meaningful way where ideas and feelings are explored.

what prevents you from reaching out? why not use this blog more, as Noah says he is, to keep connected?  keep showing up dammit.

by the way, I miss your dishwashing skills tremendously. : )

xoxo

 

 

 

Road Trip

If you are all looking for a road trip one day - our West Viginia Country house is welcome to be your destination.  Lots of sleeping room, lots of camping room, nothing to do but eat, drink, talk, walk, climb and be merry.  It's a real offer. I can even talk in my West VA accent.  Anytime friends.  

ooohhhh

That is the most alluring proposition I have heard in a long time. It evokes a very dear memory I have of shutting myself off from society, retreating into a dreamy world of familial cohabitation with a handful of friends. No television, no radio, no distractions but the inlet at the edge of the backyard. My profile picture is of that very inlet. Oh, how I longed to stay there forever, devouring books, creating art, exploring the clouds and the water... I find magic in these remote places. Ahhhh... the memory alone is so moving. I hold it very dear in my heart, that retreat. A retreat would be tremendous.

thanks for caring, Camila

but don't pull that threat to quickly less i become naked and exposed.  haven't had a mayo and ketchup sandwich in years so the crumbs i am leaving behind belong to the egg sandwich on a baguette with tomatos, lettuce and onions.  hmmmm!!!  and some ketchup too.

 

anyway, today i am endeavoring to imprint myself with new experiences.  i am battling to leave the apt. to do things.  maybe even a museum.  there are too many distractions at home that can keep in here forever.  maybe it is a "self system" that keeps me from seeking new experiences and that is exactly what i have to tackle.

 

did you feel comfortable with your last post?

Self System anyone?

Donnel B. Stern says,

 

The self system or self dynamism (Sullivan, 1940, 1953) includes all those experiences and ways of relating to others that have been found to be safe and secure. Or from the other direction, the self system rejects all experiences and modes of relating that might be associated with anxiety. The task of the self system can be described even more simply as the refusal to perceive or formulate novelty, because novel experience may be dangerous. Safety lies in familiarity.

 

The predominant characteristic of the self system, then, is that it perpetuates itself. In an interpersonal dilemma, once one finds a solution, or an apparent solution, that minimizes anxiety – a mode of perception, thought, feeling, behavior – one may from then on, in circumstances that appear roughly similar, slap on that solution roughshod. New experiences come to be mistrusted simply because they are new. One does not know what they will bring, and so one extracts from them only that which is already within the purview of the self system. When this happens, the new disappears without ever having been noticed – or without being formulated.

ripping off the bandaid

I do care, Nico, otherwise I wouldn't be asking you these questions.  Even if it is hard for you to accept my nurturing, I can't help myself.  I care a lot.

I imagine that there are self-systems that serve us and others that don't.  we probably develop these at an early age as a way of dealing with trauma, loss, or the world in general, but then can't dissolve them when they are no longer needed.  It seems like this is what you are seeking to do by trying new things--breaking out of the groove.  sometimes if feels contrary to our instincts, but it's always good to let some light and air in to heal wounds.  and let everyone see those scars as well.

let me know if you want company.  I haven't been to a museum in ages.  And Spring is here and there's so much to explore and do in this vast metropolis.  I need to break out of old grooves too.

 

 

 

OOH, CAMILA HAS WINGS, TOO

My God, we are surrounded by angels, cheese-stained angels.  The glory of it!

cheese-stained angels?

I've never been called THAT before...

Now where is nico to make me my morning egg and cheese sandwich?

CIAO, SEE YOU AT THE MUSEUM

Don't forget to bring your journals!

 

Excerpt from my journal `At The Met':

 

 

And so as the words break apart and reintegrate through the imaginative process, I become dizzy again confronted with Van Gogh.  I cried the last time I saw him in Paris, and for a moment I am back again.  I am but 12 inches away from where his angelic hand thickly brushed in green strokes a table upon which sits a ewer and big bunches of violet irises against a pink background.  I move even closer as if to kiss the fingers holding the brush as they sway across the canvas like wind against a leaf that can no longer resist and surrenders to its touch.  I gaze at this isolated stroke and one longer one and wonder what he is thinking at that moment on that day in an insane asylum over 100 years ago.  The green and the blue lines of leaf containing it in verticality grow out of the pinkish ewer and rush into a spate of violet, like blue butterflies fluttering, or curls of hair flowing down over the shoulders of a young girl.  Such intensity and clarity.  Next to the `Irises’ were Van Gogh’s `Sunflowers’ and `Cypress trees,’ God and other dimensions of colored space playing against the negative space of deeper truths that only Van Gogh could imagine and dream.  I wanted badly to climb inside, or to hurl myself against the night of darkness that separated me from him and his vision.  It felt so close that in that isolated stroke of green I almost found him as my mind climbed inside, beneath the green, to the stillness that was waiting there. 

Thanks, milaCa

your caring is much appreciated, eventhough some it makes me uncomfortable just because i am uncomfortable being nurtured.  but just knowing that you care is great to know.  and i will take you up on the offer to the museum one day soon.

 

anyway, today i tried new things break out of my patterns of gloom.  i woke up early, got some coffee, bought some food stuff to make lunch and dinner, went to pick up more mosiac pieces for my mosiac project, and went to try out a new cafe around the corner, which, if i feel comfortable enough, i may use for my writings in the mornings.  then i came home, read a little and i was swept into the yankee game on the tube.  then the mets game.  then the ncaa basketball game.  by then i realized i had crashed and burned.  so i went to workout.  when i got back i was craving a margharita. just then a friend called.  then my dad also called (he likes to tell me his troubles - i feel like the adult in the relationship at times).  then my friend also called and he was in my neighborhood taking part in a bachelor party.  he invited me to join them, but i thought it a waste of time and money to go to a strip joint with a bunch of emotionally closed-off macho men who have a harder time accessing their feelings than me.  so i stayed home in the comfort of my leather couch flipping the channels on my digital cable box and catching up on the blog.

Nico! wow. the crash and

Nico! wow. the crash and burn. thank you for sharing this. i guess i'm not the only one going through a rough patch :) i think what caught my attention most was your parenthetical -- they're catching me a lot these days -- "(i feel like the adult in the relationship at times)" i don't think i have the energy just now, but i want to share some of my experience with my father here... i'll try tomorrow or the next day. but i have been feeling this way a long long time, in my whole family. it's quite a thing! i'm sorry to hear you crashed and burned today. at least you got to catch up on the blog :):) it sounds like you got some good stuff done, though. especially scouting out a new spot to write.

 

also, i definitely wouldn't have gone to the bachelor party. i'm wondering what my response will be when i'm someday asked to join one...

James, what a torrid pace to

James, what a torrid pace to your posts.  Hell, i went to sleep at 11:30 last night and now there is a huge new chapter to the book that is The Blog!!!!

 

So yeah, I should have said, I feel like the adult most of the time in my relationship with my dad.  I can't even count how many times I had to make choices or decisions because my dad was not sure what to do and he wanted some advice.  At first I felt flattered being elevated to the role of decision maker/influencer.  But the road is long and I constantly asked myself - wtf, this is not my job, you're the adult.  Subconsciously it's even worse because I came to feel responsible for what went wrong and for what worked (more often than not, for what didn't work).  Only now do I realize that my dad was just replaying the relationship he had with his father.  They always worked together and my grandfather always dumped shit on him and made him feel guilty and responsible for affairs in the family business.  Basically, my dad lived a life to satisfy his father - something that was impossible to do because my grandfather was always withholding love from him, or even incapable of loving and supporting him unconditionally.  In this regard, I got it much better than my father because my father does love me unconditionally and is able to express it (he's a big softy at times). But I still was made to feel responsible for things a child should not be responsible for.  A child needs to be a child, and an adult needs to make decisions about the adults.  Interestingly enough, for the past 10 years I have created more separation from my parents, they have not withered or collapsed.  They have kept on going the same, even advanced a little bit.  And without me having to feel responsible for their welfare.

O-Nic!

I've finally made it to skinnyville!

what a funny place to be

I like.

I dig.

I just noticed Nico's post buried within all the processing and street wandering.

I'm so, so, so, so happy, that you shared what you shared here, Mr. Citrus.  And I'm even more joyed to know that you felt my caring and nurturing. 

It makes so much sense, of course, that it would be hard for you to feel nurtured, when you always had to be the grown up.  Now that we are adults, we CAN be the adults with our parents, but I think first we must work through some of the issues and transferences arising out of not getting our needs met as children.   I also felt that I had to take care of my parents, most notably after my dad left my mom and my mom was an emotional wreck.  In her pain and suffering, she would call out to me in the middle of the night for me to come and hold her while she cried.  I always resented her for laying that on me.  If I refused to comfort her, she would say I didn't support her as I should. I was 13.  Since then, we have worked a lot of our relationship stuff out and she has acknowledged her insensitivity and lack of attention to my needs, but I think I still carry some of that with me, like how I feel overly responsible for everyone's feelings. 

 

James do you feel similar difficulty with accepting nurturance?

I feel like I have the opposite tendency to want to be coddled and rocked and taken care of a lot. 

 

citrus squeeze

 i love your word choice: torrid. what a beautiful, passionate word !!! :)

NICO, ARE YOU SEDUCING ME?

Feeding me these tasty little psychoanalytic morsels to whet my whistle and whistle my wet intersubjective way?  You are so nurturing, my Nico.  It as lovely having breakfast with you.  Now go out into the weekend world and taste those little buds springing up just for your delight. 

"New experiences come to be mistrusted simply because they are new. One does not know what they will bring, and so one extracts from them only that which is already within the purview of the self system. When this happens, the new disappears without ever having been noticed – or without being formulated."

 

But, it's not totally new, my Nico, is it?  You have enough of that tasty intimacy in your bones to challenge that oh so resistant self-system that is no system at all but a balloon (or in James' case, a bubble) waiting to pop at the strike of midflight.  Open those wings, Nico, the roots are deep enough, you are the man, but no longer the one man band.  Call James and have a scream fest.  You'll get to meet his neighbor.

look at you go, Om, with your español!

I never asked my mom about her feelings about threesomes, but I already know way more about her sex life than I ever wanted to.  Now for my Dad, I can't even deal with the way he clutches my knee during emotional moments of any movie.  Don't know what I would have done in this one!

Now I  gotta do deal with a whole building being without electricity!

oops! no electricity?

 A whole building without electricity?!  Hope it wasn't whats-er-name's building, the one with the "flood".

And I thought I was frustrated because of having to organize 12 people to find 36 hours to spend together to talk tantric philosophy and do yoga! 

Speaking of uncomfortable movies to watch with parents, I made the mistake of remembering that 40 Year-old Virgin was a funny movie  and chose to watch it with my dad.  OOps!  That was uncomfortable!  The multiple hard-on scenes and sex jokes and language were, well... they made his favorite conversation about poop much more cozy.  

Hi Noah!

 :)

This Blog is Hoppin'!

How's your fear these days?

I was thinking about the fear of not knowing what your feelings are (not YOUR feelings, Noah, but one's, mine... when I was going through that).

I remember the disorientation (at the beginning of my therapy) of being asked "What are you feeling" and the frustration of knowing that I felt something but not knowing what to call it.  And on top of it was frustration and anger, making it harder for me to see, to feel or recognize the feelings.  Sometimes the question would send me into this little tantrum, like I was being asked to do something I couldn't do.  And i would reach into my desire to please, to provide a response, to show that I was capable, to prove myself and then I'd be angry again, because I didn't want to prove myself, didn't want that relationship with one who would judge me.  Oh, the question itself is marvelous at bringing up all the old transferences that stand in the way of allowing ourselves to open to our feelings.  It takes so much trust sometimes just to answer this question.  I'm not writing this thinking of you, so much, Noah, because I feel like you do know what I'm talking about and are already in relationship with your feelings.  But anyway, how's it going with relating to your feelings?

Dear Caterina

Oh my gosh, i know just what you are talking about--about taking the question and reaching into desire, to please and respond.  Yes yes.  Haha, when I got to the end of your post I had a moment just like that.  I don't think I've yet reached a point of trust where I completely unconcerned about judgment.  But it is probably just as much about cultivating trust in oneself as in the other (if not moreso)  Anyway, Im trying to make friends with my fear and let it teach me.  Im feeling full of love and happiness after the other night, and in general.  But also still foggy and unclear.  The big thing im thinking about these days is what I am going to do after school.  And I know i don't need to really worry about it or think to hard about it, and just follow the path as it unfolds.  But im thinking--here I am, I can do almost anything, and Im usually so full of desire.  Why the fuck don't i know what I want?  Why when i sit and wait and wonder, what is it that I want to try--i can do anything--why do i not feel anything?!  Or, when i get on track a little bit and name some general things, still it feels so dispassionate.  I am so frustrated because I can't let myself express this simple thing to even myself: what kind of summer job would I like to look for? for example.  Its just blank and negatives.  And so if i try to grab on to some specific thing and run with it for a few minutes, i only see fear.  I think i could work with that if i had a clear desire towards something (like an activity.)  I mean its the practical everyday crap--what work should i do right now, where should i walk to, i mean these kind of trivial things adding up to immobility.  It seems totally ridiculous; on the larger things, this blog, the people in my life, my outlook--i feel great and clear.  But on the everyday little things, i feel totally incapacitated.  But its doing those dishes in the sink that make it all real anyway, isn't it?  But dishes just accumulate without my volition, and I have found that I can do them, and want to do them--so im trying that for a while. 

 

And how are you?

every-day struggles

When I get caught up in my pantlegs
 

 

 

I don't like to admit it
but putting on clothing can be
a difficult task.
 

And not just when my bra is missing.
 

I mean standing up
one leg in
one leg out
and BOOM!
 
bruised behind from battling
blue jeans.
 

It's embarassing.
 

I wonder if there are others
who sit down to dress.
Struggle with a straightjacket of denim
grasping belt loops
for dear life.
 

In the morning I feel
like a newborn foal.
awkward limbs askew
positions too weird
for the kama sutra.

Ceili and her pants

You made me laugh this morning.  I have fallen over getting dressed.   I have tripped over my own legs, put my tops on inside out - often wear different colored socks.  I have put on skirts that are too long and stepped on the hem as I took my first step and that old elastic waistband just slipped down around my knees.  

Morning, sweetheart.   Don't forget to zip.

you're telling me!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who struggles with the daily tasks of self care. 

 

I'm lucky if I make it out of the house without a huge toothpaste stain on my sweater.

 I loved your poem, Ceili.

LOL!! Camila

 Or I with spatterings of tuna on my pants when my cats sneezes.

Noah-in reply to you-and dishes.

And so if i try to grab on to some specific thing and run with it for a few minutes, i only see fear.  I think i could work with that if i had a clear desire towards something (like an activity.)  I mean its the practical everyday crap--what work should i do right now, where should i walk to, i mean these kind of trivial things adding up to immobility.

I have been avoiding eating at home so I will not have dishes to do.

Which means I am also avoiding figuring out what I will do when school is done with. Are you graduating this semester is it just summer you're figuring out?
There is a fear in me of the everyday movements. The getting up in the morning, going to sleep, reading, writing, moving, talking to people. But I've noticed that the more I notice it, and the more I pay it attention, that fear has slowly been subsiding.

I have thought of going to New Mexico to spend the summer there. I am very close with a woman who lives there and living there would give me the kind of clarity which I will not be able to receive anywhere else. This woman has a back yard, she said if I come we can dance on the grass. She has a garden with flowers, and a trampoline. We'd go swimming often, and I'd be to drive to the mountains and write. 

There are a lot of mountains there- I love mountains, I love telling things up there, confessing emotions, feelings, tears, laughter. 

I say we keep believing, and  "just follow the path as it unfolds."

 

p.s

 

Noah, where is that photograph of yours taken, the one of you in the desert?


 

Oh yes, the mountains.

Or, New Mexico sounds fantastic.  I've always wanted to go to the southwest.  What kind of clarity do you think going to New Mexico would give you, that you could not get anywhere else? 

 

As fellow lover of mountains and open sky, I can probably relate.  Something about being in contact with the outdoors really opens me.  I spent last summer leaving on the coast and was amazed how the rhythms of ocean, its moods and tides, its breath became part of consciousness; how my senses and feelings became so attuned that ancient voice.  So calming.  

 

But the mountains I love more than any other place--passionately!   Ever since I was young they have represented the most deeply spiritual and awesome experience for me.  One of my favorite things to do is go hiking or backpacking or climbing in the mountains.  Especially climbing--something about the extreme difficulty and deepening perspective, something about the thin air, something about looking at clouds from above.  And descending is just as wonderful; after venturing into that harsh and barren place slowly returning to warmth and green, those alpine meadows and the smell of the forest, the sound of the wind, that roaring silence.  The desert too, in a different way.  Its so silent and empty and vast.  So out there in new Mexico you get it all at once!   You'll have to run up to those mountains to cool off.  And combine all that with a garden...!  Oh man, sounds so perfect.  

 

Yeah, I'm graduating this semester and I hope to get back to the mountains eventually and live with them for a while.  But in the mean time I'm trying to do the dishes and bring myself back to the present, this moment, my feelings...and find my intention here and now.  I suppose that is all we really have--but the present s huge indeed and into it I try to place my faith.

 

ps-which photo of me in the desert? 

this

this photo:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=10dw29c&s=3

which coast did you spend the summer on?

 

i think that a part of why i plan and fantasize about new mexico is not thinking about the current moment and the things i have to do. it's only a part of it though, the other part is a sort of goal, a place to reach.

as for the clarity i'd get- well, this woman who is there, whenever we come to the same place, we create a sort of energy which i have yet to find anywhere else. and have yet to master creating on my own. I think while mastering it with her, on a daily basis, i'll be able to master it on my own later. it's the kind of energy that those "quantum reality" books talk about. we access something really big. I think one of the things we'll be working on together is my ability to market and sell (these are things i am struggling with, and are extremely important to whatever my career ends up being, and especially writing). 

Also I never had a simple job, which has effected my insecurities. I think if I can work in a really small place, and make some money, and learn to deal with people I will be able to return here to new york, and live and be comfortable.

 

I really like that you relate to what I've said about mountains. and I think it's wonderful how articulate you are about your feelings (most people on this blog are! It's new to me- it's helpful-intimidating-great!) Have you seen Into The Wild? there is a scene in it when they climb the mountain- it's accurate in the feeling it gives. And have you read Go tell it on the mountain?

 

 

Or

My first lesson in dealing with people was taught to me by my first voice teacher.   I was so shy and terrified of performing - really, just talking to people made me nervous.  Her name was Miss Richmond, she was in her sixties, wore bright colors and had earrings that seemed to dangle down to her knees.   She told me that I should always look out at the audience and imagine everyone naked.  Really, it worked wonders. 

Sounds like a wonderful summer plan...... 

 

 

not the desert

Wow, that energy you describe with your friend sounds incredible. 

 

the photo is actually from a beach on cape cod.  Those dunes are really cool aren't they?   (just out of curiosity, did you upload the photo on that site?).  Anyway, last summer i went up there (to Provincetown, MA) without any plan, just sort of showed up and found a job and a place to stay and had a really good time.  I didn't know anyone and had never been there, but I wound up making lots of friends and working a food service job at night and doing gardening during the day.  It was one of the most intense and invaluable experiences I ever had (looking back, i can't believe i actually did it so spontaneously).  I think going someplace unfamiliar and experiencing that kind of community life (especially if it is unfamiliar) is wonderful.   I couldn't believe how social it was, and how easy it was to connect with people, but also get away and experience solitude.  It was also a radically different kind of social environment than i had ever experienced before, but full of energy and openness.

 

I have seen Into the Wild (and also read the book).  I think that his story has been sort of romanticized a lot, but i do find it very moving and I feel like I really relate to certain aspects of his personality and his journey.    I've not yet read Go tell it on the mountain, but ive heard its a must!

FUCK!

 oh fuck. i just wrote SUCH a long post. and lost it.

 

::steaming::

Angry, steaming pile of

Angry, steaming pile of doo-doo!

 

That's what i thought off when i saw the word Steaming.  Funny!

PS

 

I have been avoiding eating at home so I will not have dishes to do.

hey Or-- i've had the same exact pile of dishes in my sink for (i think) a week. i've been doing everything in my power to avoid having to do the dishes, and also to avoid increasing the size of the pile. it's a pretty small pile... will only take a few moments to clean... ahh the metaphors i can glean from my sink are astounding.

 

by the way-- i'm not sure if i ever formally welcomed you, but i'm so glad to have you join our community! i've been really enjoying your discussion with Noah, and the delectable combination of your poem and Noah's response to it. keep 'em pies comin'!

Dear Noah...

 I'm sensing your potency right now.  Like you are full of a potency that is in so many ways out of your grasp and yet is deeply corresponding to a dream and vision you've been cultivating for a long time, listening to, responding to.   We often talk about following our dreams, but then we also have to allow time for the dreams to manifest.  I want to tell you to let go into your potency.  You've done so much work, through school, and on the blog, and in your personal life, I want to tell you to take a break, a kind of deep breath, to let yourself just ride your karmic energy for a while, because it's very very GOOD.

Things will unfold.  I know people say this but we do because it's true!

At the same time, you're in a marvelous perspective point, much like a mountain (interesting that you're writing about mountains right now with Or).  You've come to a point that is also full of the recognition of where you've come from, the work you've done, how you've grown, but there is also the unknown of the "Now what?"

Part of the beauty of this point is living fully in what this perspective has to offer (including the Now What, including the questions about your future).  And living fully in this perspective doesn't mean figuring it out, or answering it, but noticing and taking into relationship the quality of that unknown as something that is simply presenting itself to you as unknown. And full of potency!

Life is many deaths.  Practice practice practice.  

And many re-births, and many in-between spaces. The Bardos, as they are called in the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

Transitions.

I love this time.

This is one of my favorite times.  Transitions.

A conscious practice of balance between alignment of your desire and trust in the sea.

We get sea legs, once out of school. 

Things are never as laid out for us as when we are in school.

But your tools get drawn into focus.  You are always with You.  

Anyway, I would love to hear any thoughts you have on sumer jobs and activities.  Any thoughts about what will become of the blog once you're gradjumacated?

As for me, I'm doing well.  Yes, still high from last weekend, but it feels like a sustained high, something that this blog is offering everyday, and also with the new arrivals and the old timers coming on every now and again to check in and relay their experiences and thoughts.  

I'm loving my work right now, both the teaching and the film work.  And I'm thoroughly infected by spring.  Today the light, the LIGHT!!, was so amazing.   Through this light, a memory was recalled, as I was crossing the street. All of the sudden I saw and smelled a flower from my childhood, don't know if it was a dogwood or what, but it was a white flower with four petals and a perfectly unique and soft, sweet fragrant flower, with little red flecks, and I'm looking deep inside this flower as though I was a child, i remember looking in this flower when I was a child! and it's right in front of me and I'm suddenly hit by such ecstasy!!  Words don't describe.. it's nearness, this timelessness of a moment, a touching that seemed to reach beyond touching into real, most real!  I felt so grateful for the memory because I never would have remembered it except that it came to me like THAT and it took me to a beautiful place.  It was not nostalgic.  It seemed to validate the experience of a young sniffer and voyeur of this planet and embodiment because all the years and experiences that separate me from that moment (I smelled it today on 6th Ave and 23rd!!) there was suddenly no time, no measure, no comparison and it is still with me.  When i die, if I smell this flower, I feel I will remember everything you and I and the world has ever done and known and know it as all embraced in that simple, innocent, sweet Ommm.

 

 

 Caterina, That was

 Caterina,

That was beautiful. Beautiful. Beautiful.

Thank you for putting it out here.

(late-night)

 Or said it-- this is beautiful beautiful. even with all my complaints about being tired and such, and after having to rewrite that super long post "spontaneity," i'm feeling warm and fuzzy thanks to this post of yours. gosh, it's getting so beautiful outside. i keep noticing that the trees are sprouting a tiny bit more each day, and i have visions of full blooms. it happens every year-- i forget entirely that spring happens. i delve deeply into winter, and by the the time spring begins to spring, i almost can't remember all those leaves and flowers having ever been... almost can't remember even the piles of orange and brown from the fall... and i celebrate what feels like the first spring. each year it's even fresher a feeling and grander a celebration. for the last several days i step outside, start walking down the street, and let my thoughts float onward without me for a moment as i just breathe. yum. Aum :P

 

most of all i want to thank you, Caterina, for sharing your experience with this flower, this sight and scent, this magic of the senses. it's a delight, the way sense-experience can be remembered; and even more of a treasure when it shows up unexpectedly. but this -- this clarity, and this transmission seemingly through the LIGHT!!!, and this absolute joyfulness and gratitude -- is just beautiful, Cat, and i am thanking you for this "most of all" for a particular reason. this sort of living, or re-living, or, well, i don't know the word for it... but this sudden upsurge of this past experience in your present experience... it's so pure and caring. i found out today that the roots of 'mother' and 'father' which give the meanings of nurturer and protector, respectively ('ma' and 'pa' in sanskrit), have been around for a long long time and can be found in all sorts of languages from all over. the way you say, "it seemed to validate the experience of a young sniffer and voyeur of this planet" -- i mean, aside from everything else about this that gives good reason for smiling -- this feels to me to be that: this is ma and pa. it feels (and forgive me if i'm way off) as though you gave yourself relief from some of the big pressures you sometimes feel (this is sort of a vague sense, and i don't really know what it means or if it's coming from you at all, or if only from me...)

 

so, with all that said (and with so much more to be said!), i have been returning to feelings from an earlier time lately, but with much less ecstasy joy, gratitude and celebration. there's been a kind of celebration, but i've been sort of bogged down by all the walls that have been in place for so so many years. i was terribly anxious the other night, and finally i said, "i feel like a little boy." and i asked, in anger and in shame, "why couldn't i just feel all of this then?" instead i was pretty numbed back then. there's so much i don't even remember because the feeling was missing. the past and childhood have been feeling like such burden; now to come upon this wonderful celebration of yours, it gives me a good moment with a different perspective, and a good opportunity to begin my own celebration, even while i'm in the midst of this long and important struggle.

 

i am reminded of my very favorite word : vessel. i read your post, and i see this moment, and just think : vessel.  though perhaps i'm just thinking of favorite words because of your careful assertion of 'potency' :D either way, i want to at least offer the word and a suggestion of connection, even if i can't quite spell it out.

 

i'm curious to hear some of Noah's thoughts about "What's next?" as well, if there are any just yet... i also would like to hear (Noah) more on what you're feelings and thoughts are about this emphasis on doing the dishes, and about the relationship between this and the "What's next?" and all the troubles surrounding. you've shared very much already, but i don't imagine you're done exploring any of these issues :) but i've got no specific questions at the moment, so i'll just wait patiently for your response to Caterina's dream/poem/post.

 

and so, with at least some of what there is to be said here, i'll stop for now, with gratitude.

Caterina, thank you...you are a poem

and I love your word--potent.  How potent your memory, and how potent you are, peering deep inside your fragrant flower; that transience of the spring opening into your infinite embrace, the ecstasy of the light, as touch transcending itself.  I am stunned by your experience.  Thank you for sharing your potency with me, for feeling my own potency inside your experience, for showing me.  I feel so embraced by you today.  I agree--I love the many deaths of life.  It is for this reason I love the autumn and the spring, that both seasons fill me equally with joy and sadness, longing and desire, above all the desire to surrender. 

 

The dying of fall and the rebirth of spring--most deeply they feel to me the same.  I have no doubt that when you die you will smell your flower, because the flower is its dying; to me, its opening and closing are one  breath.  How the potent ecstacy of its beauty embodies that seeming paradox of transience and timelessness.  (Although it is no paradox at all.)  I hope one day to  experience all of life as joyfully and lovingly as your experience this flower.  You are beautiful.

 

I don't have too many practical thoughts about after school; its quite possible I will spend the summer in new york (if I can find a decent temporary job--not quite sure how to do that here) because I want to continue to learn from, grow, and give to some of the new relationships I have cultivated here this year.  

 

I know that I need to travel and learn another language, and I hope to work towards this by volunteering abroad in the next year or so; perhaps teaching English or doing community service as I go.  And also, while I am young and relatively unencumbered by responsibility, to live in the mountains and be outside as much as I can. 

 

As for the blog: as long as this place continues to serve this community I have no intention of taking it down.  There are some practical things to consider.   When I have close access to the internet I will keep it going, provided others want to continue.   If I spend some months volunteering/living abroad in someplace like Nepal, or spend time in the wilderness, I will need to pass administrative responsibilities on to someone else for a time.  That is, if it turns out that you all want to continue to invest in this place.  I have been considering changing the url to something other than my name, since i think noahck.com is no longer really appropriate to the intentions of this website.  All it really needs is someone to steer the ship a little, manage the front page and user accounts and pay our hosting provider.  Also, I can't really understate how important Ezra is to this project, though he does not participate in our community that much, he maintains all the technical things involved with running a website and so we do depend on him.  Anyway, those details being worked out, I see no reason to turn off the lights :). 

 

But yes--I am going to try and just trust in the present and allow, as you say, my tools to get drawn into focus.  I think there is also a bunch of practical stuff in there like getting a job and earning an income and all that, which I certainly haven't figured out yet, but I'm not sure what to say about it right now.  (My shrink suggested I become a therapist...LOL :P)

 

Anyway, thank you thank you thank you.  Especially for saying "You are always with You."  Thats one of the hardest things to remember, but I trust it more with every interaction like this. 

 

 

 

James, Or, Noah.. vessel

 I'm so happy and delighted that my post touched you all!

I'm diggin' the relationship of the flower and it's potency to "ma" and "pa", james... ohh, that's sweet.  You know, I love sanskrit and languages their stories.  I feel that they are very much alive and altering, changing, within human cultures like biological functions and systems, shifting in accordance with the needs and rhythms of a people. And yes, I do carry a lot of pressures, I guess, or pressure, and while I recognize that many of them are my choice, or come out of my seeking, (I do embrace them, and they do feel like love, and in this way I feel a relationship to them as mother and father, in service to them), I could not sustain any of this love if it weren't for the reminders of simplicity, freedom, joy, return.

I am so glad that you feel my embrace, noah, because I do embrace you, you who are the sky and the mountains and the singing bird.  

I am the vessel of night enraptured by the light of all of you!

 

 

 

I am confused about where to post so I

have chosen this spot at random, and will post my first poem here :

 

 

The grains of your eyes photographed

me last night when I slept with an open window

and you wished you were the open window-

you are no kind of window-

 

remove your mouth-your big lips-

immense and capturing-

towering me like a giant-

 

and if you offer me-I'll take- I'll take

mountains-

I want mountains

the inside lining of a dress, the crevices of my ankles

my breath will hold you still

 

I do not want you to window me. I want you to

take me to the moutain

the desert

the keylime sky.

 

I cried flowers while you ate snails,

and I whispered your name along the swans

and they said

there is no place with keylime skies.

 

keylime skies

 there is no place with keylime skies.

 

Key West!

You see, those swans are always drifting around with their heads looking down at their reflection and they didn't get to that fabulous kooky place with the motto "One Human Family" and the keylime skies.

But I dig your poem, Or.  You don't want someone to tower over you, or to provide the frame of the perspective you should have to see into this relationship. You want intimacy, Big like Mountains and vast and empty and full of life like the desert!

I love this idea of the keylime skies.

I have a feeling you can paint one and we can eat it.  Can we eat it?

 

Mountains and Desserts

Or,

"Gold" ..

 

I like this.

 

I see it as a vast, Dali-esque landscape that we are traversing at both a quick and slow pace. The sleeping creeps and the towering rushes. There is stillness in the open windows as well as swans and whispers.

 

Really lovely contradictions!

and comparisons

 

the dress draws itself for me. I can feel the fabric rustling, mimicking those swans.

 

oh what a lovely scape you have created, a playground of longing and loss and desire and hope

 

Welcome a-blog

 

"phrase of the month"

 "Welcome a-blog"

 

this gets my vote. clever, hilarious, and welcoming all in one! and with reference to the Arkness of this blog of Noah's. and so much more fun. oh my, so much fun in such a concise package. bravo!!! i love it!!! 

welcome a-board

blogheads ;)

Tonight I played with bubbles.

 

I took them into my room and blew bubbles onto my pillows.
So my dreams will be airy and full of rainbows.

 

I blew them into the corners of my closet.

To share some light with the darkness.

 

I blew them into my mirror.

To see the child alive in me.

bubbles

 This is beautiful and so sweet.

:)  I love the magical acts of intention, to make our dreams sweet, to share light with darkness, to see the child alive in us.  Thank you for this reminder of how we can send some kindness and light in our own direction!

Or, I Love Your Poem

Because this is, to me, about something that really resonates.  What is intimacy?  The speaker is open, she has an open window and her lover wishes to be an open window, maybe even her open window, but is not.  What I love is the strength of this voice: "remove your mouth"--wow!  This is not intimacy.  Desire is blind.  You are trying to capture me, to consume me.  I am an open window.  Do not try to frame me, to make my voice into yours, to make your voice into mine.  Do not be my perspective.  You must offer. 

 

This is a poem first about boundary--we are separate selves, how can we be open to each other but still maintain our identity.  I do not want to be captured, consumed, merged.  What I want is for you to offer, and I will take.  This is really gorgeous, and it speaks to a fear I have always had about intimacy.  Establishing boundaries.  What does it mean to be intimate, how can I express this desire without losing my sense of self, my own sense of boundary, my perspective, my voice, my "window."    "My breath will hold you still" she says--i love the depth and complexity of the word still, but here to be held still by presence.  Allow yourself to enter a space of shared experience, of mutual offering--an expansive space: mountains, the desert, key lime pie--awesome, vast, spiritual, playful. 

 

And that last stanza carries for me, such sadness.  This distance has not been closed-"I cried flowers while you ate snails."  These lovers still seem to be speaking a different language--these experiences are so different, crying flowers vs. eating snails.  How, through two open windows to the self, can we translate our different language and experience into the vast spiritual and playful landscape intimacy?  Oh, and this is why I love the strangeness of your language, its surrealism, its startling syntax that keeps making me read again and again.  For, as the speaker seems to understand, the space of intimacy is depends on both difference and communication.  Two separate people creating and sharing, not capturing or towering.  "i whispered your name...there is no place."  What is sad to me here is that the voice speaks with such clarity, strength, and understanding at first about what she needs.  The end feels like doubt and distance.   

 

I would love to hear any of your thoughts on the poem.   Of course, my interpretation is based on my own emotional experience.  Sometimes poems make such wonderful mirrors, and this one is really working on me.  Very beautiful Or, thank you! (and send us more :)

 

PS-a fine place to post your poem!  we have very little structure going on around here, just post stuff where it feels right--though is best to do it in the 3 or 4 most recent threads ;)

 

 

 

 

gorgeous gloss, noah

 I love this how you perceive the issue of boundary here in the search for intimacy.  Even the difficult moments (and so important) of having to remind the other that there is one: "Remove your mouth!" 

This is where I struggle, too, with intimacy.

My last, very brief, encounter with a self-proposing lover was constantly about boundary for me, because he just didn't grasp that there was one, that there was a different self (mine) having a different experience than his.  I didn't lose myself in this encounter so found myself constantly in the act of setting that boundary.  it became playfully intellectual, to point out to him in the moment how certain statements of his were excluding my otherness.  It was actually pretty cool.  I didn't get too angry with him (for I could tell that it was coming from a strong desire to merge as well a kind of tender expression of his opening to me, and it was all coming from his historical inexperience with intimacy).  I think the not-getting-angry part for me was the most refreshing experience.

  Yes, I love this poem of Or's as well.  I like what you point out as its surrealism.  Thank you both.

  Thank you Caterina,

  Thank you Caterina, James, Noah and Sophie. 

 

I read some of your replies earlier and I must admit I was very overwhelmed. I am less overwhelmed now, therefore am able to reply. 

I am overwhelmed by this blogspace in general, I think that a part of my poem was regarding that- (maybe towering me like a giant)? I am unsure and all your interpretations (Noah,Caterina) were especially overwhelming because I am not used to getting such an amazing feedback. I am so grateful that I resonated something in you.

I feel when I write I am unclear (in my conscious mind) of what I am writing about, and am affected entirely by my current space/region/place.

i am in a great place right now. things are beautiful where i am. i hope all of you are in places as beautiful as this one.

 

as to james- last night i read your entry of your anger/forgiveness toward your parents, and it made a great impact on me. there is not much i can say except that you were on to something. i felt when you finished writing, and you wrote that last sentence you had stepped out of that place to something lighter, yet i do hope you remember the importance of what you had written previous to that statement. 

 

i am glad to be here.


 

Right on Or, about the blogspace

I must admit I was very overwhelmed. I am less overwhelmed now, therefore am able to reply.  I am overwhelmed by this blogspace in general, I think that a part of my poem was regarding that- (maybe towering me like a giant)?

Speaking for myself (and I'm sure plenty of other folks would agree), this blog space sure can be overwhelming!  I get overwhelmed all the time.  It takes so much commitment.  Its this huge intimate mass of beautiful personal text, and all these strange intimate relationships.  Sometimes I run away because I get overwhelmed and self-conscious.   I'm really pleased you said so, and that you were courageous enough  to jump into the unknown anyway.   If your state of being looks anything like your photo, a beautiful place indeed. 

 

glad your here too.

 

 

and now a story about relationship

 

I am linking to this poem written for the UPS guy.

Because today the UPS guy asked me on a date.

So I've been thinking lately about how I want to be in a relationship.

I've been chatting with a friend who practices asking for what you want and staying focused on it.  I've always been afraid to do this, since I trust that my energy and desire, deep deep desire, are already drawing what I need into my awareness and for my experience, so I tend not to ask specifically (afraid that I'll leave something out!)  And she says, "Go ahead and ask and then Brace yourself because it's on its way!"  So today I decided to write down what I want.  Introspection featured highly on this list of qualities both that I seek in a partner and in the relationship, in what I know I need in relationship.

 

So after writing this down to a friend, I leave my workplace to go get some lunch.  As I'm walking back to work with my lunch in hand, I think, "I will just imagine that he is walking towards me right now" and I feel myself breathe in this idea, trusting it, I am feeling heart connection, and like I'm just flowing.  it's nice.  So I look up and see two lovers totally making out on the sidewalk in front of me, and just beyond them the UPS guy is walking towards me!  There is no one else between us except these lovers, who dissolve out of frame as soon as I see him.  

 

Big smiles and "hellos" (and he'd already offered to take me for a ride on his Harley - which I would love, because I love motorcycles - and we've already talked about how riding a motorcycle is a meditation, and he relates it to my yoga, and the flirting, the attraction, has been consistent now for several weeks), and we stop and talk.  

 

He asks me if I am always this calm.  He feels calm in my presence, he says. I say , "Me?! Calm?!" but then realize, yeah I'm pretty calm, centered, I guess.

I say, "Yeah, I guess I am," and smile and we are looking in each others' eyes and I realize how calm he is (or seems).   He says, "When I see you it makes me want to do yoga." (Now that's nice.) "Well, you should!" I say, and we've already talked about this too.  So after discussing all sorts of things (he's a philosopher, not like James or Om or Noah, but he's a thinker, considers things)... he tells me that he's in school at nights to get his degree so that he can become a gym teacher.  He's currently taking psychology. (I think, "I can help you with that!")  LOL!!  Anyway...

 

He then asks me what I'm doing this weekend.  "We should hang out!" he says.  In response, I tell him that Saturday I've got my yoga and then brunch afterwards, and i'm ready to say, "but I'm free afterwards" and he remembers that I have this yoga group and we talk about that... and I think because I hesitated, he offered lunch "next week" and I'm thinking "I don't want to wait that long!" but I think he sensed that I was nervous.  You see, he's sensitive, too.

We decide to have lunch at 1pm on Monday.  And that's that.

 

Excited and thrilled (though I'd love to have been able to change our date to Saturday night) I go back to work.  Later, I'm teaching my Italian class (adult ed) and there's this student who I also have a crush on and feel attracted to (don't worry, he's my age!! LOL!!!) and because it's a small class tonight, he and I end up partnering for some grammar exercises. And there's energy, and it's warm, and I can see how there could be a connection for us, because he's very intelligent and worldly and feels pretty stable.  Later, I learn that he loves cooking, and I'm finding myself totally melting at the idea of being able to enjoy his culinary skills privately.

 

Just for a moment (and I let it flow through me and with the other female students who are probably all have this feeling too!!) As we're departing, he begins to make fun of me, in various harmless ways, but I realize that he's got a kind of aggression that verges on.. not mean, but slightly, harmlessly, insensitive.  It's fine, it's funny, but I'm now reflecting on something else that is really important to me (was on my "what I want" list) and that is kindness (which UPS seems to have a lot of).

[Notice I say "seems" a lot because I am aware of this stage of unknown, of projection play, but I can say that the seeming is also felt, it's pretty palpable.]

 

I'm walking to the train and thinking about my poem "UPS" (reminded by a text from my friend who, when she hears the UPS guy's asked me on a date, wants to know which line of the poem we're on).  

Line 1: Under Perceived Sexuality.  That's the first impact.  (It's only one aspect of the impact, the very superficial First Touch).  It also speaks of attraction based on this First Touch.

Line 2: Under Perception's Silhouette. That's the second but decisive introspective turn (the first was recognizing the presence of perception).  The perceived is a reflection of the perceiver's looking, carving out the frame of the looking, like a silhouette, not the content of projection but the container, the recognition of the very act of mind's projective activity. And in the mirror, I look into my thinking.

In this relationship we're at line 2.

In both men I see myself, my desire and looking, my desire to look and be seen... not seen, as in "objectified" (which happens, as we know, and is a natural stage of perception, and thinking) but beyond that, into recognition.

 

 The poem speaks to my process of entering relationship.

 

Walking to my train, I begin to imagine, to feel, the quality of relationship with these two men, in some future stage.  I wonder if UPS and I can get beyond objectification, no longer even objects of sexual desire, and whatnot, but really, to penetrate the image, the perceived, to have a relationship that really is about relating... I sense that I do not know!  I sense that he really wants to be in a relationship, that this is not about just having sex (and don't get me wrong, I don't mean to suggest that he puts out this "I'm a hungry predator" vibe, at all!)  (You wouldn't believe the conversation we had today about a little boy he adores from the neighborhood who's a genius kid, reading and writing at age 18 months!! How we valued the relationship that his caretaker gives to him, who cannot "get him" probably (his observation) but who was probably offering him something more important at this stage (my observation) which is nurturance and love.)  Anyway, I sensed that I do not know, but that the question was about being able to move closer.

 

When thinking about the second guy, in some ways I felt him already closer, intellectually perhaps, not with the sensitivity of intellect I feel from the bloggers, but almost like my almost cultural familiar.  That makes it easier.  And I felt a longing for someone who could get me in that way (though I don't know he really can) but then I sensed, or imagined, that there would probably be competition (as demonstrated slightly today by the quality of his playful comments).  There would be another kind of barrier to intimacy that is more prickly.  And I don't mean to say this second guy (my student) is in any way mean, but that what I sense from Tony (UPS), which is a kind of integrated maturity, a self-knowing, and most importantly kindness, is not as radiant in this second man.

And I thought of these two contemplative objects, these men, of course, as silhouettes of my perception.

 

The direction of relationship for me, the goal and heart, the reason and motive, are contained in the words of the final two lines:

and Understands Pink Sunsets'

Universal Prayer: Soften.

 

"Pink sunset" sounds cheesy, but  Why?!  There's the shame!

And it's around softening to such simple and fleeting gifts, like a beautiful sunset, like a smile, an offering, like life.

 

On the way home, on the train, I imagined the UPS guy again. I imagined asking him directly, in some fashion, if he was looking for a partner to grow old with.  I imagined today asking him if he wanted children.  I saw him, on the train, crying and I was holding him, his head in my lap and his arms around my waste.  I realized that I want to be with someone who feels so much trust and comfort with me, that he can let go and feel held.  I imagined how I know growing old together means depending upon each other more and more.  That is what I want.  I want my father.

 

I care for my father, physically and emotionally and spiritually, actually.  This is what I know I have to offer.  Not just intellectual depth, or my past and numerous uncommon adventures in travel of all kinds, but my present, my compassion.

 

I have beaconed on this man and uttered a prayer for myself through what his contemplation inspires in me; it is a prayer for what I want in relationship and in life... to soften, to learn how to soften and allow myself to be held and cared for.  That is hard but I know I can do it!  It's all just practice anyway, and the practice is the relationship!

Peace and Love,

Cat

 

 

 

 

CATERINA, ONE SUGGESTION

I know you know I know you know this, but I would focus on needs instead of wants.  Now it might seem these two words are synonymous but they're anything but.  I know you know this but keep those wants low and those needs high and in conscious awareness; don't let the slip slip and slide off the mindfulness train.  Remember, everybody's got something to hide except for me and my monkey.

 

Beautiful post, with just a touch of atingere!

attingere

 is with two t's

I am focusing on needs, primary among these is to stay conscious and observe my feelings as I approach, on common ground, the idea of drawing closer to someone... if that's possible.  

Under Pairing Surge

 The third line in the poem for the UPS guy:

Under Pairing Surge

I believe I am at this line now and I am realizing that the journey into this relationship is not one of clear, gradual stages, where I will advance and surpass the needs that the previous lines pronounce.  Rather, the third line makes the first and second more important to keep in focus, and more difficult.

For example, today I am aware that I am grappling with desire and desire to collapse the boundary, or "rush to intimacy."   It feels like a simple sexual desire. But this desire isn't that simple, since it is a heightened state of the initial attraction met with a sense of the possibility of intimacy.  I find myself in conversation with him today and we're asking each other questions that could best be answered slowly over time, and through a more intimate slowing down... 

The goal is to get under this desire, while it may stay all along in the play of the drawing closer.

So what is under this desire for me?  It may be to stay aware through it, to reach into it by holding it and not collapsing it by giving into it.

 

What is more interesting to me is my response to Om's post and to Camila's post.  I found myself having a reaction to them of frustration: to Om I wanted to say "I am thinking of my needs" and to Camila I wanted to say "of course I know that there is more inside of a 'pretty package'".  I count on it.  The point isn't that my friends failed me, since they don't.  Rather, it is that I was suddenly facing a very familiar feeling of not being supported when I am facing a possible romantic relationship.  It felt so familiar!  And I don't know where it comes from!

Maybe it stems from my being the constant critic (thumbs up and/or down) of my mom's boyfriends when she would come home with a new one.  I was 4 when my folks separated, and 7 when they divorced and I moved with my mom to the far away planet of Maine.  So most of my life has been not one of observing my parents' relationship but of observing them with other suitors who were not my parents, and considering, measuring these suitors.  I am only considering this as a reason for why I don't feel supported.

But why would i feel like people don't support me when I am venturing into an intimate affair?  Maybe they are just looking out for me?  But do they not trust me to continue to ask the very questions that I ask everyday to myself?  Do they think that I lose consciousness when faced with romantic possibility?  Isn't this my practice, to not lose consciousness?  To understand actually and relationally what this means: how to stay true to myself?  And even if I falter, as I have done many times, don't I always come through with more awareness?

It is such a blessing to have the opportunity to practice!  

Anyway, we all know that my new friend will probably not be my life companion, don't we?  So i intend to focus on kindness and openness and "knowing my audience".  I still feel I have something important to learn from this person.

 

 

 

 

 

running and screaming (and now a word from our sponsors)

hey, kit kat, i do not like to be the bearer of bad news, but this post might just feel like a continuation of what frustrated you about Om's and Camila's. so i'll keep it short, and then maybe add some support!!!

 

i don't think i need to draw your attention anywhere, because i trust you are attending just fine. what i see in the words of this post is that you are focusing on what "they" think. "Do they think that...?" "do they not trust me that...?" but all of these questions aren't really about what they think, especially because Om and camila (the "actual" they, sort of) clearly support you very carefully and lovingly, and you clearly recognize this. as usual, this is largely coming from my current experience (oh boy is it!), and i'm projecting, yadda yadda yadda. but i do also believe i'm seeing something, so hopfully this will help instead of merely frustrating. like i said, i'm sure your attention is just fine. in this post, i'd say, your focus is outward. it's like this frantic movement OUT. pushing away from you. no need to explain, though. seriously. i like that you're letting yourself explore those feelings, because that's what (seems to me) you're doing. instead of rushing in with the intellect and ordering everything so that it comes out neatly, you're letting them just come out in the outward projections and frantic questions. do they not care? do they not support? do they not trust? of course, all of these questions are for you, i think, most of all. i can see especially clearly that you are doing this sort of exploration, because "they" are not Om and camila in your post. "they" are this mysterious they... the "they" of the feeling itself. not this person or that person, but the very feeling of going unsupported. i think one of the questions you are  asking yourself here is perhaps something like what i asked myself earlier: WHY THE HELL IS THIS SO HARD?!?!

 

i want to tell you that i trust that you are doing quite all right, and that i trust that you'll handle whatever this budding relationship turns-out-to-be with self-care, intimacy, and awareness. i pretty much only know you as well as i know what i know from the blog, but i've got a good amount of confidence that, as i've said to you before, you're in good hands: your own. i do also want to tell you that you've got a few wise friends, and while i am excited by your willingness to explore your resistance to them and the frustration you feel with them (and, ultimately, "them"), i also want to tell you that, as you already know, their words deserve as much space and reflection as you can offer (and relationship!). there's no pressure here; that's the cool thing. there's no pressure because you're in good hands, and there's no pressure because it's cool to go down that slightly frantic road for a while. you can take it. and we've got to. all those feelings are there, so how else could we get in touch with them without, you know, feeling them? i've been going nuts for a few weeks now. i've been really anxious and frightened. i am slowly, so so so slowly, getting down to that fucking shame that's been killing me for so long. and then there's the desperation... the reaching... and the fear is remarkable. i'm very resistant to all of this, and i am starting to observe that very resistance. it's real cool. it's exhusting, because i'm in a tug-of-war with myself; but i can't let that fear, and that shame, keep pulling me back from that which i need most. i'm in okay hands, too, and so i'm finally capable of going a little nuts for a while. it's cool to be struggling as much as i've been struggling, because there's no concern that i won't make it, and there's confidence that there is "another side" through to which i am breaking. and so on! so if what you need to explore now is this frustration, then that's cool. when Om says something like, "but I would focus on needs instead of wants," he tends to mean business. so when you've got a moment in which you can explore this, then that's cool, too. i'm sure you'll take a peek around and see why he may have chosen to offer such a suggestion. see-- here's where "right/wrong" is once again off-the-mark. i'm not concerned with whether he might be right or wrong... my concern is that i know that he is intimate, and that this is also a very cool place to explore.

a tiny response to your response, james

 My post points out that I am aware that this is not about right and wrong, nor is it about Om or Camila, but about a feeling I often have of not feeling supported by my friends when I head into a romantic interest.  What perhaps was not made clear for you is that this is a transference that i am clear that i am having.

When I said (can't quote here because can't get back to my post) that I wasn't worried that they failed me, because they do not fail me, rather I was interested in understanding what comes up for me, this is me referring to why that transference (this is INWARD).

The questions that follow (don't my friends trust me to be me? etc) were simultaneously outward and inward, just as I feel transference to be, both inward (recognized as personal construct/interpretation/sensitivity) and outward (still seeing it out there, in relationship, still unable to separate the transference from the experience of the other).

So if you read a lot of OUTWARD in this post it is balanced, I think, and contained by my awareness that it's transference we're (I'm) talking about, which i thought I make clear in the post.

 

a favor to ask

this might sound silly, but i'd like you to re-read my post. and i'd like you to do so now knowing that you did make this clear to me. everything in this tiny response is totally clear, so i probably didn' t make myself clear. maybe you'll be able to see therein that this was already clear to me now that i'm telling you so directly. for example, i wrote, "in this post, i'd say, your focus is outward" ... the most important part here is "in this post." like i said, your attention is fine. it might just be that i've got no new insights to offer you. that would be fine, you've got an abundance of insight on your own. i would just like for you to re-read my post now that i've assured you that i'm not trying to show you what you clearly are already aware of. i'm sorry if i was "advice-ing!" and if after doing me this favor you don't feel any differently about my post, no complaints or arguments from me; i'll look back at your posts and my posts and see what i did miss, because if you're telling me i missed something i'm sure i did. what you shared in your tiny response certainly felt clear to me when i wrote what i wrote to you, so maybe that'll affect your reading. beyond giving it one more shot, i want/expect nothing else :) thank you!

 just wrote this long

 just wrote this long response, via editing the previous response, and it was so luscious, so deep, so personal.

damnit.  Somehow it got canned by the server.

I'll give your post a re-read later.

Gotta get outside.

BTW, I was referring to "this post" as well (I don't assume that you are referring to anything outside of the post).

But I think it's ok for you to read what you do, and for me to read what I do.

Again, if you felt my focus (in the post) was outward, I was responding to that by explaining why I felt it was primarily inward and then inward and outward (but through an inward understanding that I was referring to transference, and so was not outward).

Capisci?

 

Love,
Cat

 

shit, too many posts getting

shit, too many posts getting lost lately. i've been paranoid the last few days about losing posts. i hope you do get out! i'm hoping to spend some more time outside today; it's gorgeous. sheesh; it's a shame when things can keep someone inside on a day like today. everyone, get some fresh air! in case i don't, i'll live vicariously. i have to think about this last paragraph a bit, and then: capisci ;)

 

speak with y'all later.

SUGGESTION REGARDING LOST POSTS

I write all my posts on my word document, then paste it on the blog, so that if it gets lost, I still have it.  The other option is to send it UPS.  If that doesn't work, Emily seems to be wandering around the streets, so ask her to deliver it.

Street girl

Yes sir,Om.  I wander the streets.   And I am feral, too. 

Street girl redux

OK.  I am a wander.  I was on IM with my dear son, when my husband popped up and asked if we wanted a three way?   Sure, why not.  I'm young.   So I push some buttom and enter a buddy chat room.   I start chatting,  actually mumbling, calling out: where are my two men.   Then, I notice Alex enters the room.   But it doesn't register that I don't know Alex.   So I rant some more and then I see Alex has left the room.   I am alone again.   I don't even know how I got where I got to, but I sure as hell was lost.

DID YOU SAY ALEX?

What the fuck were you doing in James' dream?

TODAY, SANDWICHED BETWEEN CENTRAL PARK AT THE MET

 

Do you know this man?   No, it’s not James, nor is it Johnny Depp, but it is a desperate man.  France during the 1850s was the center of the art world and “The Academy” was comprised of a dictatorial committee of conservatives who set the standards for what constituted good art.  Critics (much like the media during George Bush’s regime) slavishly toed the party line and, as a result, resisted art’s anticipation of the revolution of perception, which caused a paradigm shift regarding space, time and light (see the film `Mindwalk,’ Fritjof Capra’s `Tao of Physics’ and Leonard Shlain’s `Art and Physics’—amazing book!!!!).  Here is one critic’s attack on our prolific and radical featured realist painter, Gustave Courbet, now showing at the Met.

 

“From what fabulous meeting of a slug with a peacock, from what genital antitheses, from what fatty oozings can have been generated this thing called M. Gustave Courbet?  Under what gardener’s cloche, with the help of what manure, as a result of what mixture of wine, beer, corrosive mucus and flatulent swellings can have grown this sonorous and hairy pumpkin, this aesthetic belly, this imbecile and important incarnation of the Self?”

Is this not the most beautiful thing you’ve ever read?  Gustave Courbet, like many of the new impressionist painters, violated the reified laws of perspective.  This violation was in fact the sowing of the seeds of doubt about the inviolability of the Euclidian conception of geometric space and, though the artist was unaware of these doubts, she nevertheless intuitively expressed them visually.  Along with this new perspective on consciousness (reality) was, for Courbet, a very modern desire for individuality and freedom:

 

“I am fifty years old and I have always lived in freedom; let me end my life free; when I am dead let this be said of me: 'He belonged to no school, to no church, to no institution, to no academy, least of all to any régime except the régime of liberty.”

 

As the innovator of what he was to call Realism (as opposed to the predominant Romantic and Neoclassical schools), Courbet saw himself as a pursuer of truth and advocate for the underdog.  Like many French artists, he was dramatic, rebellious and political.  He was unable to separate art from social issues and, indeed, these are both implicitly and explicitly relfected in his paintings.

 

I was a bit overwhelmed by Courbet’s prolificy and diversity (landscapes, portraits, erotica, etc.) more than having an emotional resonance to his work (and I asked myself why?).  His work did not move me as other artists.  There was more of an outward social statement reflected in most of his work than a deep interior identification (and thus empathy) with many of his subjects.  And so, for me these are significant, beautiful and at times brilliant, but not profound and transformative paintings. But I do strongly recommend going if you get a chance

 

I ALSO SAW A SWEET FILM THAT I RECOMMEND

It's called `My Blueberry Nights" with Jude Law, Norah Jones, Natalie Portmann and Rachel Weisz and David Strathairn, all actors I respect very much (and Norah Jones' songs are in the Ty Cooder soundtrack-- excellent!).  Not a great but interesting film (it would have been a perfect blog-goers film about relationships) and I shot really well.  Slow, romantic, a bit contrived and sophomoric in theme but for some strange reason I enjoyed it.

blog clog

I hope this doesn't get lost in the crowd.  I have another proposal for a blog get-together for those of us in NY (or willing to fly, drive, or teleport themselves in).

I randomly stumbled upon this listing about a lecture I think very much relates to everything we talk about here.

 

 sounds terrific!!!

 sounds terrific!!!

  i'll have to trim my

 

i'll have to trim my beard to look like this at some point, and make a replica photo :P:P

 

but if you send them UPS

 don't be surprised if they arrive a little late. The UPS guy has been tied up talkin' to some girl on the street for hours. ;)

 

UPS Man

maybe he was the one in my chat room.

LOL

you guys are too much!

I'm getting dizzy just trying to keep up with this repartee.

Hey Nico

 

Hey Nico

 

Thanks so much for asking after my nose.   I kind of like that.  I don’t always know what I am feeling in the larger, global sense, but asking about a body part is a great idea.  So, hey Nico, how’s your left arm?    As far as the nose goes, it settling into a nice patina, a little purple in spots, a new dent, not unlike the bummers on my car and if it keeps on working, I won’t need to take it to the shop.   I hope it heals before I meet up with Alex again.

Em again

how did you guess i am a lefty?  My arm is well, but i did something to my shoulder while working out.  nothing major, but it feels a little tight and stressed when i pull it back.  other than that, only the usual aches and pains.  thanks for asking.

 

good luck with the nose.

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Carissimo james

 I did have a reaction to your post and want to share with you some of the elements of it that frustrated me.  This is all in the loving and intimate spirit of "pushing up against", so please push back if you need.  I ain't going anywhere (though I might take a while to respond.. like a few hours).

First you say that my friends so lovingly and carefully support me.  But that is not always the case.  Sometimes, as I state in the post, I do not feel that way and I do not blame them for not always being so careful.  They do not always know where my sensitivity may lie (I wasn't even aware of it myself) so I have to use language to tell them and so we, I especially, process what's come up and I do not blame them for causing me any grief.  I am aware when something is stirred and in that moment know that I am having a transference.  It's automatic by now, and there are deeper levels of this transference that I am so gratefully discovering!  As you will see from the post entitled,"Camila, Om, James, a big brown...", the sensitivity is very old and I am just becoming aware of it myself, so it is not that they can know all.  I might experience a failure and that is OK!  it doesn't mean that they are less loving, but it means that there is an opportunity for more introspection, understanding, and intimacy and through this process we can become more loving and careful.

(It's not like i even said they failed me, in fact I said specifically that they don't.  Which brings me to the second point...)

The second thing that I found myself wanting to disagree with is found in these lines:

"while i am excited by your willingness to explore your resistance to them and the frustration you feel with them (and, ultimately, "them"), i also want to tell you that, as you already know, their words deserve as much space and reflection as you can offer (and relationship!)."

First of all, "them" was not a literal "them".  When I was talking about why I don't feel supported, I was in full cognizance of the transference and was exploring that.  It was not about Camila or Om, or anyone else.  

Secondly, I did offer relationship by posting that feelings were coming up for me, that I recognized that they did in fact support me, and then asked "so why do I feel unsupported?", at which point I began to go into the transference (not projecting it on them, but using the feelings to observe the dissimilarity between what I know about these relationships and my feelings).

Finally, it was not my interest or need to reflect on their words in the post.  My post wasn't focused on their interiority but my own, nor was it addressing my pleasure in the truisms or anecdotes or sharing in their responses which were quite beautiful and entertaining.  My post was about what I was going through, and I was not blaming them (made that clear) nor needing to reflect upon their words as I didn't really suspect them of any ill-will.  

So I guess I feel like asking you if you were feeling protective of Om and Camila when you wrote this response to me?

 I do appreciate that you saw that I was not intellectualizing but letting feelings have their way to the forefront.  

I see also that you want me to explore needs vrs. wants, and take Om seriously.  I do take Om very seriously (NOT!) just kidding, but seriously, really, i take OMMMmmm in deep draughts, and yet, we are missing the point of my response by focusing of what I didn't respond to, aren't we?  

xoxo, pushingbackcat

 

 

 

push me around

all right, catpushingback, i'll give you a shove, since you're asking for it. this is very cool, and i appreciate it quite a bit. i'm glad you're confronting me! i don't get that often. i'm a little stunned, actually.

 

"First you say that my friends so lovingly and carefully support me.  But that is not always the case. [...] the sensitivity is very old and I am just becoming aware of it myself, so it is not that they can know all. [...]  it doesn't mean that they are less loving [...]"

 

"so it it is not that they can know all." careful doesn't mean all-knowing! heh. okay, i'm being a bit obnoxious now. you're telling me (so i think-- shit, we're just a bundle of misunderstanding today, huh? i'm getting in everyone's way, not just my own!!!) that your friends aren't always capable of supporting you (in the ways you need). i'm cool with that. point taken. i'm sorry for that assertion... i was laying the icing on pretty thick, huh? i was thinking particularly of this interaction between you, Om and camila; but even so i was laying the icing on pretty thick. i apologize for this... to be honest, i was nervous writing my response to you. i think there's a whole lot going on in that nervousness. for now i'll move onward.

 

i am a bit annoyed at this one, though: "First of all, "them" was not a literal "them".  When I was talking about why I don't feel supported, I was in full cognizance of the transference and was exploring that.  It was not about Camila or Om, or anyone else."

 

grrrrr. i thought i had made clear that i could see that "them" was not a literal "them." especially by writing, in the quote you chose, "(and ultimately, "them")" that 'them' in quotation marks is the figurative them... the them, as i wrote, of the feeling itself. not the person out in the world, but the feeling itself. but, come on... before you got to that point, there IS a literal them out there, named Om and camila (and James), and there are feelings for them, too, no? is pure transference possible? perhaps i'm being romantic about transference, now. i wouldn't be surprised, this week. but i'm skeptical that it's so black & white... i mean, if it was this straightforward, why in the world would it have to come out in a transference, instead of direct feelings for your mother and father? i ask this of myself, as well. why do i have to suffer through this transference? it sucks. it's confusing the hell out of me. so i'm loathe to imagine that i can have a transference without having a very particular set of feelings for this or that person. especially with a transference of the significance you're currently speaking about. well, maybe they're all that significance. i can't tell. but do you see what i'm saying? anyway... this is sort of after the fact. you're still railin' on me for taking you too literally. i'm guilty of this charge, too. despite all this arguing and perhaps defending i just did in this paragraph... i can see that i did not see the extent or depth of this experience of yours. i couldn't see it; and i mean that literally. i couldn't see it... cuz, you know, i'm all the way over here. so my projections and assumptions get the best of me. and so-- i apologize for this, as well. i am sorry to say i might not have taken you entirely seriously, though at the time it felt as though i was taking you completely seriously. i have to return to this feeling, because i wish to learn to be, you know... more careful.

 

finally.. (and let's see if i stick with my shoving on this one :) you write: "So I guess I feel like asking you if you were feeling protective of Om and Camila when you wrote this response to me?" my response to this is: No. neither of them need my protection. and you also do not need my protection; this was one thing i hoped to make clear in my post. i spoke about your further exploration of your friends' (Om's and camila's --- when writing about your friends i was writing about a literal and very specific "them") as a sort of hypothetical. look, doing your own thing clearly works very well for you. as i've said about your hands... you know by now. what i was hoping to offer was a reminder. i sometimes get annoyed with Om, and sometimes i even find myself dismissing him. if you've experienced anything like that, then i understand that experience. if you haven't... well, then, shit, you can put up with a lot of annoyance!!! taking Om seriously was sort of put as a hypothetical. i stick by that one. you're exploring the way you're exploring, and that's cool, and it works well. and if it ain't broke.  what i saw in your response to Om (when you said that you Are focusing on your needs) was a choice to stick with your way. if this is way off, then that's cool. as we have seen, a lot of what i wrote was way off. and i wouldn't have seen that had you not challenged me (seriously... i was surprised to rebuff twice in this response!). so that's not my concern. if you weren't making that sort of choice, then i apologize for implying that you were. and i still stick by my statement that when Om says something like that, he means business. it was meant as a reminder, in case you were making that sort of choice. and it was set up as a sort of hypothetical for two reasons: (1) there was no rush; (2) (including if i had missed the mark) i was making clear that i wasn't stating it as some sort of imperative.

 

now... i didn't respond to everything, and i'm eager to keep on pushing and rocking back and forth. this is fun. if only my classes were like this! my gosh. how stimulating they'd be. it also feels good because i'm so much more connected again. i was starting to have a droopy evening, and now i'm back! it's late... but that's okay. i'm back! hoorah. so... anything that i missed, or any responses to this response, bring it on! push away. my friend always used to talk about "walking on egg shells." fuck that! push me!!! :) :) :)

 

ahh, i'm excited. but, okay, one last thing... the very end of your post confuses me. "I do take Om very seriously (NOT!) just kidding, but seriously, i take OMMMmmm in deep draughts," well... that's clear, but then you say, "and yet, we are missing the point of my response by focusing o[n] what i didn't respond to, aren't we?"

 

if you've got the time, i'd like a tiny bit of clarification, because i'm not sure what you mean. i'm especially not sure what the tone is of that "aren't we?" and it seems so wry and smirky, dangling off at the end after that comma like that... especially since i don't understand what comes before it. it's smiling at me. ahhh. okay-- thank you thank you thank you. sheesh, i needed a good shove. and you give good ones.

Baby got push-back!

 Ok, I'm dying!!!  I'm laughing and I've never had a push back like this that made me laugh so hard (at least on this blog) and it does look like we're having fun.

I'm excited too.

Gee, how do I get back to sense making?

Ok, here's one:

In your "running and screaming" post, you speak of "them" twice before saying "and ultimately 'them'" [i.e. feelings] [who the fuck is going to be able to follow this repartee at this point?] so it seemed that you were mainly focused on Om and Camila and my lack of response to "them" (or treatment of their actual posts), but as I have been trying to point out, i wasn't referring to them or to the fuller content of their posts, per se, but to the feelings that came up for me, which you see as the "ultimate them" which for me was more like the primary "them".  

So it seems to me that you were more focused on the relationships on the blog than on what I was sharing about what was coming up for me.  That's all.

You can say over and over again that you recognize that I was referring to my feelings, but you are still concerned with Om and Camila, and I want to know why.

I dig what you say about transference having tangents with reality. It was not the purpose of my post to accuse Om or Camila of failing to recognize me, rather to point out that I was having feelings... and saying this does not mean that I am not saying i have these feelings when om or Camila respond in a certain way (and in those situations, if I have my wits about me, what else do I reflect upon and share with them except my feelings, therefore, they are "primary").  My post was saying that in that moment, when I read their responses, these were the feelings that came up for me and I wanted to explore those.  

What is it that you wanted from my post that i didn't give you?

Recognition of their presence?  But this is precisely why I wrote about my transference in my post.  What else would i say to them?  This was how I chose to share with them (and the blog) my feelings, what was coming up for me.  

What do you mean about "doing my own thing?"  Why do I feel like my post let you down in some way?  I'm not pushing Om's post away, I just didn't respond to it fully or directly because that was not my need at the moment.  I talk with him a lot about needs and wants.  This is not something that I haven't taken in; on the contrary, it is something i think about constantly.  Because I didn't write it there and then does not mean that I do not think about it or care about it deeply.  

The point of my post wasn't to say "No thanks, Om, I've got it all figured out." Maybe you read that?

 I didn't feel like writing a long response about my thoughts about the difference between wants vrs. needs... or how I understand this and am reflecting on it in my practice.  This may be due to the urgency i felt to address what was coming up for me (it's not everyday that I get a strong feeling response like that and it clearly felt indicative of what I've been trying to uncover in my personal question to understand why I have trouble accepting my need for relationship!)  

What I sense from your responses to me is a kind of challenge to respond to things in ways that may be something that you need to do, but isn't or wasn't what I needed in that moment when I wanted to post as I did what I did.

But it's not like it's "my way or the highway."  But maybe you see me that way?  Cool!  Let's explore that!

I appreciate that you understand Om meaning business but why do you assume that I didn't take that business in and make of it something meaningful to me?  Because I didn't respond directly to it?  Again, it goes back to the point I am trying to make which is that I used the post to begin the process of reflecting on my feelings, to better understand what has been blocking me from feeling safe... But maybe you wanted more response to them.

Oh, James... what did you want?!  What were you needing?

I am most interested in why you were nervous responding to me.

I sense that herein may lie the answer to our whole discussion.  And I still think that you were trying to protect them. ;)

LOL!!!

I am dying!!!

 Emily, is your head still spinning?

 

 

shaky

kitkat, you're being tough on me. sheesh, you don't let up, huh? and after all my concession :) (not a complaint!)

 

but i'll have to buckle in, here. i think you're being a bit unfair.

 

"I appreciate that you understand Om meaning business but why do you assume that I didn't take that business in and make of it something meaningful to me?"

 

come, now. i was awful careful to keep from making this sort of question necessary. i'm about to make a generalization, one which very well may be untrue; but i am a little hyper now, so i'm not gonna check my sources. everything i've said suggesting you "take Om seriously" has been written with more complexity than you've given me credit for. there's the generalization. i believe that at least implicitly in all such remarks is the understanding that not all of your processing happens on the blog (duh!), and that you already know that Om means serious business. i never thought i was teaching you something you didn't know; and i wasn't telling you that you have to take him more seriously, or that you have to write more on the blog about needs vs. wants at all, let alone in this specific context. i told you that your friends are loving and careful and support you-- and i said in my previous "pushing" post, that you were right to challenge this, that it looks to me now that i was "laying the icing on thick," so to speak. i love that phrase, now that i've come upon it. then i wrote that he means business, and that if at some point you feel like exploring why he may have said what he said-- then that's cool, too.  i'm pretty reluctant to accept that this comes with the assumption that you DON'T (changing the word) take that seriously; all i know is what i know from the blog, so when you write to him simply, "I am focusing on my needs," i only know that. look, read what i wrote again, i'll stop with the abstract: "so when you've got a moment in which you can explore this, then that's cool, too. i'm sure you'll take a peek around and see why he may have chosen to offer such a suggestion." for all i know, this moment had come and gone long before i had written the post. this is why i did not write this as a prescription. what do i know? well, i know what i know from the blog. but i also know that the blog is not all. so i am not trying to tell you what to do, or dismiss that you do understand "the business."  what i wrote is much less abrasive and much more, yes, careful, and complex than that. so-- i think you're being unfair on that count.

 

about different views on "them" -- i won't argue with that. i spoke about this in my last post. my focus on them was indeed different. and while i feel i understood quite well enough that your primary them was not Om and camila, or any literal them; i had something to say about the literal. what was not in your post? perhaps it's built into this very focus: what was not in your post was a clear acknowledgment of the literal. it felt to me as though you were pulling back from the literal and focusing exclusively on the transc--- umm... transcendent? heh. transferrent. nice. very nice. but there are two very important things to add: firstly, i celebrated this focus, and the fact that you were consciously focusing. very very important. in fact, it is quite the opposite of what you suspect. i was writing my post to you needing to focus in the way you were focusing. my need for you to focus on the literal... that's what i'm used to. i'm defending the literal in this communication because i am frightened i might pull away from it if i do focus on the transferrent. and that is what i need-- to be able to see deeper than the literal, which in many cases is, for me, a thin veneer. i celebrated your focus because i need to do the same, and i defended the literal because i am concerned about leaving the literal behind. so the first thing is my celebration of your focus on the "transferrent." i love that term. secondly, as i've pointed out, i wrote my post (and all posts since) believing and wishing to convey that i'm not concerned that you don't take the literal seriously and give it full focus in its time. this is why my response was exclusively a response to the "in this post" and not to Caterina in total. i'm reminding the Caterina "in this post" about the literal, because in that post, Caterina is starting from the literal, and then leaving it behind entirely. but where did it go? i tried to point out numerous times that my focus was not on (capital y) You, because i know you've got insight and attention and self-care, and all sorts of other amazing things; but rather that my focus was merely on, as i should have written then, the "character" so to speak "in this post." now add to that the fear i speak of above, and perhaps some of this will start clearing up a bit? i'll return to this in a moment; why my focus would be such.

 

so "What is it that you wanted from my post that i didn't give you?" perhaps you're being a bit unfair there, too. when i wrote my running and screaming post (which is, i think, the base post to which we are referring; though there have been several since then, now, heh) i was offering my support, knowing it wasn't me you needed support from, and yet also knowing it was there for me to give; and i was responding to the voice you took on in your post. Your way. your way or the highway... well, sure, why not? are you taking this more personally than i intend it? you've shared how difficult this is for you, this whole topic, this whole sphere. if you respond to Om's post and then mine with what looks to me like an isolated kind of defensiveness (like your tiny response, in which you tell me a bunch of things i had already written into my post; i was upset by this becase it seemed to me you felt i had totally missed and dismissed you, and i felt i must have done a pretty poor job writing my post, because i was well aware of everything you shared in that tiny response) then it looks like a sort of "my way or the highway." i should probably go into that more, but this is already another long response!!! but look-- please take me seriously when i assert that "what i know is what i know from the blog" and also that "i know that there is more than the blog." i mean-- i've got a life, too, ya know :P so when i'm being unfair in one way or another (a few instances of which i concede in my "push me around" post), or when i am just plain not getting you (which i am frequently guilty of), i appreciate the challenge, because i need to practice. if i just think of all of my words as perfectly shot arrows, then where will i ever get? now, if i am careful with my words, i am careful for a reason. it's a weird balance to walk, the balance i tried to walk in "running and screaming" ... i wanted to show you that i understood and celebrated what you were doing in the post, and that i was not frightened that you were trapped in some la-la land, and that i wanted to respond to the post itself, to respond to that voice, to engage in a communication to that voice, because it's what was there for me... it's the Caterina to whom i was responding. if i just respond to your post saying, "well, i know, despite everything this post tells me, that you are holding your experience with this and that complexity, so: great job." well... i dunno, that's kinda boring. and i don't think that would get us anywhere. you chose to offer a very specific expression, and i responded to it. does this necessarily mean that i assumed you were only capable of that one voice; that you were only experiencing that one perspective? i think my post would have been much more blunt and abrasive if i felt things were so simple. do you?

 

again, there is much to respond to i am likely leaving out. but my nervousness... well, let me read your next post and i'll sit on my nervousness a moment. and of course i leave a lot here to rough-n-ready explanations... so-- i'll be ready for more soon enough ;)

more precision, more recognition

 "so when you write to him simply, 'I am focusing on my needs,'..."

 

I wasn't writing to OM. I was writing a general post to the blog and saying that I was noticing a reaction I was having... I was referring to the reaction.  This can be read literally, that I literally had a feeling response and wanted to understand it better.

 

But I was not writing to OM, directly.  Not in that post, at least.

 

I just want this to be recognized more clearly because it really does seem to me to change the significance of the line "I am focusing on my needs" when read in the proper context, contained (and not alluded to) within the lines of the post itself.  

 

When you say, "you chose to offer a very specific expression, and i responded to it," I would like to suggest that you look at the "specific expression" more clearly.  The nature of the post was not a response to Om's post.   That's important! 

I appreciate your efforts to make clear to me your perspective. 

Got a lot of catching up to do, and reading, and I'm a bit tired tonight, so want to keep this response short.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(check out how brief this post is.)

 i'm a tiny bit confused, because i'm not sure if you realize that i was talking about this post, since i think i didn't say i was specifically talking about that post. (you wrote "i am focusing on my needs" in two different posts) but either way it doesn't matter, because what you write here (i think) applies to both posts. for some reason i never would have thought to read the post "attingere" as a post NOT directed to Om (it was posted as a response to his "one suggestion" post), and to see it as a general post to the blog. i'm sorry for missing this.

 James, darling, you

 James, darling, you wrote:

"what i saw in your response to Om (when you said that you Are focusing on your needs) was a choice to stick with your way."

 

Why did you see this?

Here's what I wrote that referred to their comments:

What is more interesting to me is my response to Om's post and to Camila's post.  I found myself having a reaction to them of frustration: to Om I wanted to say "I am thinking of my needs" and to Camila I wanted to say "of course I know that there is more inside of a 'pretty package'".  I count on it.  The point isn't that my friends failed me, since they don't.  Rather, it is that I was suddenly facing a very familiar feeling of not being supported when I am facing a possible romantic relationship.  It felt so familiar!  And I don't know where it comes from!

 

From this: "to Om I wanted to say "I am thinking of my needs" you understood that I was choosing to stick to my own way. (Very interesting choice of words... almost defiant.)

By your interpretation,  I understand that you thought i was dismissing his "suggestion".  I can only say this, besides the obvious fact that this was presented as a "reaction" that I was open and ready to ponder, that I felt I wanted more recognition for how I was reflecting on my needs through this whole thing.  This is not a dismissal of his suggestion.

Om probably noticed that I was referring to "wants" a lot in the post.  Even down to the most intimate: I want my father.  But I was also referring to needs.  In any case, I wasn't outlining in "And now a story about relationship" all of my needs, nor my wants, I was telling a story about how I was regarding two men in relationship, not in relationship to my wants but to my needs!!  Many of the times i say "want" can easily be replaced with "need".  Not all, but most.  In any case, what I was frustrated with was the feeling that my post was being read linguistically and not through recognition of how I was actually speaking about needs and maybe misused language.  I wasn't precise enough.

I also was reacting (through the transference) to an idea that M(om) was telling me that this guy could not possibly meet my "needs".  And this type of counsel forbids the relationship, in my sensitivity.  It seems to say "don't even bother, keep looking," but that is not what my feeling or intuition tell me.  They are telling me "Here's someone who is interested and interesting, practice!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

a short one?

"I also was reacting (through the transference) to an idea that M(om) was telling me that this guy could not possibly meet my "needs".  And this type of counsel forbids the relationship, in my sensitivity.  It seems to say "don't even bother, keep looking," but that is not what my feeling or intuition tell me.  They are telling me "Here's someone who is interested and interesting, practice!""

 

cool stuff. i speak about your challenge to me here, in another post. it's called "shaky." i quote myself there, because i think my post was a bit less straightforward than you're making it out to be. though perhaps i'm being obnoxious again. let me know!

 

anyway, this last paragraph is really cool, and i don't want to take the focus from that. so the only other thing i'd have to say is that -- and i am not speaking for Om here, because i don't know why he wrote what he wrote, or what he'd write about this here now -- the choice to say/write 'want' over 'need' seems to me to be more significant than you make it out to be. i wasn't thinking about this when i wrote about exploring what Om suggested, because, as i say, i don't know why he suggested it... i'm not terribly anxious for you to explore needs vs. wants-- again, the full story here is in "shaky." now that you bring up this linguistic thing, though, i've got a response. in one of my posts (it's a good one:) i speak of this statement, "I want to feel straightforwardly," and i later replace the word 'want' with the word 'need.' in this very specific case (i don't remember the wants and needs from your post, so i'm speaking in the abstract here-- this example is just to serve as a general statement and isn't meant as a challenge to you or a suggestion to you about these posts we're debatin')-- in this very specific case, the sentences don't sound very different, but feel (to this very specific James) vastly different. i do my best in that post to express this difference. the fact that it came out "i want" at first, is significant in this case. because it was, as i write in that post, "expressly" a want. i didn't notice that it was expressly a want until after saying it, and i didn't notice that there was a "need" version of the statement, until i started writing the post! cool stuff. okay. i'll stop now. you've written two more posts. i'll have to get to my nervousness later :P:P:P

 

now-- anyone reading this: return to the last paragraph of cat's post-- it's way more significant and beautiful than any of this bullshit i just jotted down.

being awake can really get in the way of being asleep

okay, caterina. one more thing. this is just clarification for the sheer sake of it. i don't think this really changes anything... but it's nearly 7 oclock and i'm still awake, so i finally came back to the blog and am all shook up (uh huh). you quote yourself in this post, this paragraph about Om's and camila's posts, starting, "What is more interesting..."

 

the post to which i was pointing is actually attingere. you offered much more by way of words, thoughts and feelings in the post you focus on, than in this little blurb attingere. i've still got all my own beautiful mess going into my reading of your post, so like i said, it doesn't really change anything. i just figured if it was gonna change anything, it would perhaps just make you a little bit less confused how i got from point A to B.

 

now i can seriously say good morning, blog. sleep, or bagel?

 

i'm working on a new version of a billy joel tune; i hope to share it soon, if i can finish it. you guys are gonna dig it big time.

Cat

You asked if my head was still spinning?  I can't even find it.

So, can you or James ( after he sleeps) sum it all up for me in paragraph or two? :)

 

"can you sum it all

"can you sum it all up?"

 

good question :P

summation

 okay-- so i can't sum "it all" up in a paragraph or two. a lot of the back-n-forth between Caterina and i last night was, so it seems to me... specifics. the content of our posts, that is. we were pushing at each other and pushing back at each other about this and that in our way of reading and responding to each other's experiences. that's sort of the straight content; but that's not the whole story, so perhaps there's a better way of summing it all up. all those details aside, here's perhaps what i love most about our interaction, and what got me so excited last night:

 

i felt totally cool and confident that it was safe for me to make a big mess. i could contradict myself; i could be defensive; i could be unwittingly egoistic and disingenuous... i could mess up a whole bunch, and it'd still be safe. i'm not saying i did all of these things, nor am i saying i didn't... i'm not actually sure. i'd love it if i was totally honest, direct, present, intimate and compassionate... but here's the point: i need practice! practice is sometimes hard to come by, because i sometimes get afraid that confronting someone, pushing someone, challenging someone, or just being straight with someone about anything at all... i get afraid that this may demolish the relationship. that if i make too big a mess, there will just be a fight, and things will fall apart... that if i say the wrong thing i'll hurt your feelings, or that you might "take it the wrong way;" that i am not quite free to explore my own limitations, because the relationship can't handle that weight. or something similar. but last night was very fun. i didn't have any of this fear. i knew that even if i said something really stupid (which i'm sure i did... probably a number of times) it would be fine... no-- it would be great! more to explore, more fun to have. i'm not afraid that Cat "can't take it" or that she'll run away, or that i'll get too scared and start to hide... and so on. i'm not sure what the extent of this experience is or means for me, and i'm not sure what the extent of the fears i usually feel are; there's so much more to uncover. as far as what is clear, i think my feelings about this are expressed quite nicely in the opening of my post dreaming in my anger (isn't that a great title!!! i crack myself up):

 

"Caterina: i love you. especially how dishevelled and annoyed you can sometimes get me, because i get to just tell you so. though that doesn't happen in this post. i just wrote a post pushing back up against your pushing. heh. "I learned a new way of loving today, pushing you. At first it was ignoring, but then you pushed me, and we were pushing inside each other's pushing.""

 

 

hope this helps, em! (Cat-- your take?)

summation gorgeous

 Love your summation, James, and i felt the same way, like I could be honest and push, and you'd push back, and it wasn't pushing for the sake of pushing, but in the spirit of trying to understand one another and see where we're coming from... it was pretty awesome, beautiful, refreshing, for me too, much for the same reasons you mention here.

You know the old arguments that focus on "you said" "no, I said.." "no, you said"?

A little, at times, I was afraid that we were doing that, but it felt deeper, more integrated.  I felt pretty clear about what I was wanting you to recognize about the post that you weren't even referring to!! ha!  Because there are also lacunas in posts, timing, when one writes, when one gets a chance to read, and post again, things that are past come up again, and then can also get confused. Off to read more posts! :)

a little bit more

thanks for your response to my summation, Caterina. i'd like to agree emphatically with one thing you say:

 You know the old arguments that focus on "you said" "no, I said.." "no, you said"?

A little, at times, I was afraid that we were doing that, but it felt deeper, more integrated.

i definitely would want to defend our exchange from the charge of mere "i said/you said." i agree that it was deeper and more integrated, and i'll tell ya why; perhaps it will resonate with a few folks here (or perhaps i'll get a big PUSH for it). i feel pretty strongly about this. i've done a really large amount of "i said/you said" in my life, and it just feels gross. i get so grumpy and groggy when i fall back into that old pattern, and disconnected and often even confused. yuck!

 

there are two things: firstly, what we've got here is text! that's what we've got :)

 

hee hee... but secondly, when we were focusing on what i called "specifics" we were (as you've already pointed out) doing so not merely for the sake of pushing, and not in order to avoid the feelings that we were sharing (so frequently my experience with "i said/you said")... rather we were pushing in order to say you are not understanding me, you are not recognizing this feeling, and taking the opportunity, so it seems to me, to explore this really boisterous way of sharing; to say, "take me seriously, take me on!" and to really bring ourselves into each other's presence as much as possible... to show up as fully as we could, without holding back. i think we were sort of trying to answer Om's call (though before he made it!) to make of this interaction something closer to physical closeness. and even if we or i fell into a trap, focusing on something i said, or something you said, just a little too much... in such a way as to pull back a little bit... then it was (implicitly, at least) encouraged to respond with a healthy push!

 

(i guess there are three things, because thirdly is that we were joyful and loving, even just as or just after we were really pushing quite hard, and we could write a post saying, "oh, how lovely," and then go right back to pushing-- whenever i've fallen into "i said/you said" it's been just nastiness back and forth. and never fun!!!)

that's what I'm talking about

see?  this is gorgeous!  it's so related it scares me!

Ahhh, I see! I see now what you're talking about James!

 You see, we were referring to two completely different posts!

You were referring to my trite response to OM and I was referring to a completely different post!  Ha!!

So what's the point again?

yeah, that one was lacking in many ways.  

but the point for me has been to explore what was coming up, and I did and posted on it: I was "sensitive" and having transference.   

 

oh.

 shucks; well, then, i'm sorry i wasn't clear about that right away... we were bakin' last night!

 

it's quite all right that it was "lacking"... so you were "'sensitive' and having transference," and then were able to formulate this thereafter in your later post. slowly but surely the picture comes into focus... this is why i'd want to respond to that which you offer us. but i've already spent an overabundance of words on this, so i'll leave it at what was written :) now i've got to write a really really long post about how valuable my stories are, and how perfectly articulated my feelings always are.

 

O:-P

now, about your folks...

cool beans, Caterina. you're quite a mirror for me tonight :)

 

my folks split and divorced when i was 10, and when i was 10 i went to Hawaii (this is the trip i had in mind when writing the part of this about family trips) with my sister, my father, and my father's side of the family, and my father's girlfriend. shit, that was fast. well-- i guess it's because he was already going out with her! i know we're not the only two on here with an experience centered around this. camila, i believe, experienced it a little bit later than i did (we three alone cover all of childhood!)

 

i had a dream the other day in which i was a therapist. my office was my tiny little bedroom, and my patient -- a man with a very grumbly voice, whose house i visited somehow earlier in the dream, and saw his children, a son around my age and a younger daughter, and his wife -- was sitting on a tiny foldout chair that i used when i was building cardboard box castles in my father's basement years ago. he wanted to end his marriage to be with his married girlfriend, Alex. he wryly suggested shooting Alex's husband. he tried to manipulate my words into laying the responsibility on my shoulders for the decision to leave his wife, Catherine (hey, Cat!). kind of like Alex from In Treatment. damn, that show made it to my dreams again!!! his wife, meanwhile, was unknown to me, and in the dream came across as a passive sufferer of this man's narcissism. whatever she was guilty of i hadn't a clue, but what i could see was this man before me. among many other things, it led to thinking about my parents' divorce. it feels like i am blaming my father in this dream... as though my mother is unknown to me because of him. interestingly, i am not trying to repair the marriage. that isn't my concern in this dream. i have no idea whether these two would be better off together or apart, whether it may be far more destructive to conjure up some way of keeping them together. my concern is finding a way to this man, that he may perhaps be kept from destroying himself and all of his relationships... he's got quite a bit of power. it sounds like i'm talking about my father now. one of the odd things is that the more i recognize my father, the less he himself has power over me. i would even go so far as to say he doesn't have power over me anymore. but his power over me is now coming from within. this is the shame i was talking about in my last post. the reason i connected with your "frantic questions" was because this week i've been asking myself questions that feel similar to me. they don't quite sound the same, but they feel similar. as the weeks go by, my focus on loss, my extra focus for the last few months, becomes more and more clear to me. i can see, now, why i've been so focused on loss. the outlines of that earlier loss are arriving.

 

then i go back to your post, your few words here:

 I was 4 when my folks separated, and 7 when they divorced and I moved with my mom to the far away planet of Maine.

the far away planet! i wonder how confusing that time in between might have been. did you ever see them together? what happened afterwards, did you see your father only infrequently? there are so many questions, and just... so much. i'm ready for more whenever you are, and with whoever 'round these parts is ready to jump on in and join.

 

YOOPY ES

muy bien, Caterina.  I love your surging post and james' pairing response under your post.  And what I love most is how you both so deftly process the UPS and downs of psychic freight acrosss long distances to get your understandings to their destination; which, of course is no destination at all.  The process is the destination and since we are all activities of consciousness rather than inherent, permanent beans [sic], we sit with these UPS and downs as a holding of desire through the flux and flows and ins and outs of awareness.  The sitting is the dialectic tension of the unknowns and uncertainties that, over time, open up to deeper meanings and perspectives from which wisdom burgeons like spring blooms.  What you don't do, Caterina my yogini, is foreclose the dialectic by foregoing the dialogical need to process.  And that means the need to question and, at times, the need to push up against other voices, like mine and Camila's, for example.  And Caterina knows how much that excites me!  For she knows, to paraphrase what I said in a previous post,  The other is always right. In this non-therapeutic but still relational context, it is Caterina.

 

"Simple enough but the most profound.  What does this mean? How can anyone always be right?  Is being right the point?  Think about it for a moment; I come to you, the therapist, because I am suffering, and most likely the main reason why I suffer is because I haven’t felt sufficiently recognized, if at all.  And further, the lack of recognition I have experienced -- in whatever forms it has taken – has resulted in me feeling shame.  Why shame?  If we define shame as that sense of badness that results from a vital sense of self (our voice) unwittingly squashed, we can see the connection between recognition and shame."

 

And so, when we begin-- as Caterina has done here-- with the (real/integrated) conviction that we-- our feelings-- are ALWAYS right, all negative emotions (shame/fear/anger) dissolve, which result in the freedom to process-- "peering, absorbing, translating."  This freedom, in turn, enables the exquisite clarity of transparency to transcend the psychologies we didn't create but are, now and forevermore, as beings of (en)light, responsible to change.

be careful what you ask for!

Cat,

It's funny that you are talking about making a list of what you want/need in a relationship, since I was having the same conversation last night with a friend at work.  In fact, we wound up staying at the office until 9:00pm talking about men and relationships.  I told you I didnt' want to do the dishes! They're still there, by the way, since I've spent all night on this blog! Anyway,  my co-worker told me that she made a collage of the man that she wanted in her life and a couple of months later, she was in a relationship with someone who had all the qualities she asked for (warm eyes, he can look her in the eye, he understands and respects her and her freedom, is intelligent, cooks, likes to hold hands and be in pictures with her and wants to marry her).  The only problem, she says, is that she forgot to mention that she wanted him to have hair and not be so much older than her! 
 

For my birthday this year, my friend gave me a purchase order from the universe to ask for whatever I want. I was supposed to fill it out 3 months ago, but have been taking my time figuring out what to order.  I think I'm ready now.

I know this is a little bit of magical thinking, but I also think that it's  also about defining what you need, so you can align with it. look for it, and recognize it when it comes along (as well as recognize when it's not there).

Maybe the UPS guy can deliver what you need, but sometimes pretty packages come with damaged goods. :)

idealization, and my order

i'm all for defining what we need. but magical thinking... it's the secret! oh no!

 

i started a list a long long while ago of what i need in a relationship. i don't remember what the list was, now, but i think i got up to about ten things, any combination of which i was hoping to find in a partner. now i'm looking for it. it was a good list. can't find it now, though. i've still got a few things in my head. i love love, camila, the quick story about your friend!!!! i got a terrific laugh out of it!!!

 

i'm so curious about my relationship with idealization these days. as i wrote to a friend recently, "i want to feel straightforwardly." this is expressly a want and not a need. it's sort of my resistance to the difficulty of my process at the moment. the image in my head is still of me in a bubble, and on the one hand i'm trying to poke through it, and on the other hand i'm holding myself back with all my strength. that's what's so exhausting. so i can feel these resistances slowly peeking through when i say something like, "i want to feel straightforwardly." i mean... that would be nice, but that's not really why i'm saying it. what i mean, by the way, is that feelings i have with regards to other people (especially with regards to women) are often about a whole slew of other people and things. and the person it seems my feelings are for (like Dot and Eva from this post), isn't even there. she's just this image at the end of my reaching; an image that will either allow me to continue hiding from, say, my past wounds, or an image that will allow me to open up to them.

 

okay, let me be a little clearer: so in that post i speak about Dot, and reaching towards and being attached to Dot. but then i realize what i am reaching for is the feeling that i feel i lost, and that i've been losing... well... all my life. recognition, i suppose. just-- relationship. so i have something of a choice in that moment. i'm thinking about Dot, and i see this image of her, i can continue reaching for her incessantly and disregard all else; or i can do what i somehow managed to do, and move back, open my eyes a bit, and see a little bit of the broader context, the source, so to speak, of this attachment. i'm not sure i'm being clear, or if this is clear to me at all. but lately i'm struggling with idealization, because i don't trust many of the feelings i have, because they seem to be somehow deceptive, as though i am punishing myself, or repeating old punishments. i think it is actually helpful not to trust myself in this bizarre instance. so then i'm stuck not really knowing what in the world i'm feeling, or where the feelings are coming from, or what they are regarding. on the one hand i'll feel like i have a crush, and on the other hand i'll feel like i'm a little boy, feeling the feelings i missed when i was younger. now, wait a minute, where'd the crush go? so hopefully that cleared this up a little... the resistance: i want to feel straightforwardly. it's a big "NO!" to the process, to breaking out of the bubble, to accessing these old wounds and punishments and... feelings. i sort of need to feel straightforwardly, too, just not in the way i'm suggesting. i need to feel without putting up barriers to feeling. so i'll try to transfer my focus from that want to that need, and to simply allow the resistance to be what it is.

 

the purchase order from the universe is a fun gift. i'm glad, camila, you're ready to fill it out. i think my purchase order from the universe would be something from me... to order myself a gift of self-recognition, that i may feel all of my feelings without less-than-consciously resisting and hiding and hiding from them. something like that... i wouldn't want something delivered to me so much as something to come out from within, so to speak.

another gift

but as it turns out, i did get a gift from the universe today! my sanskrit lexicons came in the mail! yay!!! the mother-of-all sanskrit lexicons is the monier-williams sanskrit-english. it's enormous. it's a mammoth. it even includes a bunch of indo-european language cognates. ::shiver:: so cool. i can't wait to share some of the goodies i find therein.

my world of dreams

I dreamt last night, in insparation of James' trip to key west, that we all took a road trip in a big bus.

The only person I actually saw was Noah- he was packing things into the bottom of the bus, and I walked into the bus, and said hi, he looked up and looked a bit sad, I asked if he was okay and he smiled. (Noah, thanks for continuing to appear at night, but please please don't stop by my bed and creep me out like that homeless man did to james!)

That's not suprising that I only saw Noah, since dreams with him have been reoccuring in the past month (i'm glad becuase it brought me to this blog)

It was so nice, I don't know where we were going, but I know James had his guitar, and there was such a great feeling of happiness.

road trip dream!

so cool. i'm glad we've all made our way into your dreams!!! i wish i had more blog-dreams... the last dream i had with a bus in it was a few months ago, i was with a big group of family friends and cousins (though none from the waking world), and one of my cousins was a big jerk. long story short, i punched him in the face. it was the first time i've ever done anything like that! when i woke up i had a good laugh... i was glad i got to punch someone in the face in the dream world :):):):) oh wait! no-- that was the second time i ever punched anyone in the face. the first was in a dream from years ago... i was in a big theater with friends and family (from the waking world this time) and there was a stone-faced man sitting next to me, who was taunting me. i punched him over and over and just hurt my hands. i was ashamed and ran out to my car (it was cold and snowy out) and drove off.

 

but back to your dream! i guess there's no way to avoid taking a road trip, now. unfortunately, we might have to put it off until the semester ends. busy busy busy. we can make it a graduation celebration! i've got another year to go, so i'll be without those dreadful fears ;P

whirled peas

catherine,

I feel compelled to defend myself, but I know that's my transference of your transference, and I know that you know that I know it's a transference of your transference, and as Om says, the other is always right.  I just want to point out that I was trying to play with the whole UPS metaphor (not so successfully) and wasn't really saying anything pro or con about him in particular.  I was only responding to what you had already said yourself about objectifying him and that he wasn't exactly what you're looking for.  I do trust you and your ability to recognize when your needs are not being met.  I trust you to make mistakes and learn from them as we all do, and don't at all think you are doing anything dangerous or worrisome. You have already said that you didn't think this guy was really going to be the "one", but you wanted to play with him anyway and explore what came up for you.  I guess stuff already is coming UPS :)

I think it is so cool that you can process all this here and with us and are so aware of everything as its happening. 

 

Saturday might and I am confused and it ain't from drinking

Ok Friends.  Help me out here.  The Cat, Cam and Jam posts seem to have wow of wow energy charge that I am not quite understanding.   I usually don't tip toe around but I am tangled up in not understanding.   Can't dance if my feet are tied.  I am trying, but not so great with knots.

I agree, Em

this is quite an unfolding story on a saturday night at The Blog!

 

by the way, how's the nose?

Camila, Om, James: a big brown package for you

 and it ain't poo!! 

I've had some deeply personal and important discoveries today which began yesterday through the recognition that I was having feelings in response to the posts by Camila and om, and my attempts to begin processing that response with the blog.

Yesterday I asked,  "where do these feelings come from? why do I feel unsupported by my friends, especially when I know that they do support me?"  And, as I noted in that post in which I asked these questions, I mused upon the possibility that the feelings came from critic to my mother's lovers.  But, as it turns out, it is much deeper than that.

 

This question stayed with me and over some time, sleep, dream, yoga, and churning, led me to reflect on this feeling, very visceral, very near and in my gut, of not feeling supported when I try to have a romantic relationship and I followed it back and I think it has to do with fearing that if, in reaching out for my father, my mother will feel that I'm choosing him over her.  (Age 4+) I couldn't reach, or admit, that I needed that relationship, or even one with her.  My mom (age 34 when she was raising me as a single-parent) was on her own and struggling with a lot of insecurities, about being a good mother, about providing for herself and us financially, about making it in an intellectually competitive and male-dominated field.  When she was 37 she moved us to Maine, and found herself in a far away town, in a culture that was nothing like her southern-raised, black velvet, women-should-be-home-raising-children-culture. She felt both radically liberated and utterly disoriented, like learning how to pilot a ship on her first voyage alone across the sea.  I think she turned to me to provide affirmation that she was doing ok and if I was struggling or unhappy, or needed more, or anything that really required her presence, she would feel like she had failed.   I think early on, real early on, I somehow figured out that if I let on about my love and need for my dad, my mom would feel threatened, so I protected her from these feelings and didn't ever open up to a real need to be in a romantic relationship.

 I think that I have somehow always associated reaching out for romantic relationship with a very old fear of losing my mother.  So, in someways, she would not let me practice having that need.   I was never in any long-term relationships, never had a serious boyfriend all through school. I became promiscuous, finding a way to "sort of" reach for for love, though never trusted in the model of boyfriend-girlfriend.  I had no mental model of this.  It was not a priority for me.  I found a way to bifurcate my needs for intimacy: intellectual and emotional intimacy with women and sexual intimacy with guys.  But the piece about opening to the desire for a romantic relationship, both intimate and sexual, that was just not available to me. We're talking about later manifestations of a very early split in my psyche.  

And I think this early relationship I had with my mom (and fears that I couldn't reach out for my dad in front of her, else I lose her too) must be the nature of the transference, of the feeling that i'm not supported.  I have developed a tremendous set of intellectual defenses and whirlygigs to avoid the vulnerability of needing relationship, of actually admitting that I wanted one.  As I allow myself to feel this need and become more vulnerable, it is like I am in a very sensitive space, and my sensitivity is to feeling judged, even at the slightest hint of intellectualization about whether this guy can meet my needs or not.  This sensitivity, this very soft opening to my need for relationship, does not know what it feels like to be recognized because it has stayed hidden.

What helped me realize this today, besides recognizing the older relationships, was when Camila told me over the phone that I was allowing myself to become more vulnerable in relationships. Beautifully put and it resonated!  Processing later with another friend, i realized that the vulnerability is around opening to the need itself. 

The funny thing is that I can be very intimate and open in relationships with men, and am not so afraid of opening to them.  It's in sharing that desire for openness with my "mom" that is the turbulent and frightening piece.  And since my mom was my only support for many years (except when I was with my dad in the summers) and my confidant and best friend in many ways, (we also had and have a great intellectual connection and are able to talk about so many things, high and wide... though there are thorny areas that I just get too scared to approach... especially if it has to do with recognizing that feeling I have, that deep feeling of love, simple really, or just being present), my "friends" will naturally pick-up the brunt of that transference as it is to them that I turn to see if I'm doing ok (to see if they will go with me into this reaching out).

As James pointed out, it may seem very outward, almost as if to ask, "but why do you look to them for this affirmation?" (I know this is not precisely what you were asking, James, since you didn't ask this, but you could have!) Well, this is why (and I'm heading back soon to re-read your post so I can better attend to your insights).  It is not that I continue to need their approval, it's just that there is a way I am and a way I relate (in my private interior) that not even my friends know.  It is very deep, and I keep it far from "her" most times, because I am afraid she will try to take it away from me or stomp on it.  And "she" is not any of you, or anyone still alive.  "She" is this early early figure who wouldn't let me have this intimacy with my father. (Please know that I do not mean that she intended to keep me from having that intimacy, though there is probably that too, as I later learned when trying to have a more intimate relationship with her father in his last days... but the deep shit, these feelings I'm talking about, it's all as felt and constructed from a child's perspective).

I will continue to process this and hopefully find better language to describe this "reaching".  I also had an "ah-ha" moment today: the fantasy of the threesome, the joy of it and the desire for the boys to kiss.. it comes from my earliest wish to have my parents together again, love each other and me, for us all to be loving each other together.  That never happened.  I never saw that, in my life.  I never saw my parents embrace, or kiss (that I remember).  Later I would see my mom and step-dad in cooing closeness, and loved it, loved their chemistry.  Though they were culturally quite different (love of money and a well-run household were about the only things they had in common), they did have a great passion for one another.  Weird weird.  Oh how we're all so weird!

 By the way, I'm feeling much better now.  Thank you all for letting me process this here! 

 

teacher

holy shit, Caterina, i just wrote something to you and lost it. i am on an unfamiliar computer, i have a very hard time typing on it, and... i am so angry... oh my, i'm fuming.

 

Caterina... i want to try to write it again, and to continue where i had left off. jesus, i am so upset.

 

fuck. okay. i started by telling you this is such a beautiful package. thank you for sharing it. and it sounds very much that you are feeling better.

 

i read much of your post and laughed and said, "oh my god." it just sounded so familiar. it felt very much the way my current struggle feels. gosh, i lost everything i wanted to say to you... i can't believe i just managed that again. okay. in my post "now, about your folks..." i referenced my dream, and started going into it a little bit. i've been mostly sharing foginess lately, because that's been about as clear as this has all been to me. for a while it just got more foggy. and this last week, or so, it's been clearing a little bit. still mostly fog. but i am starting to really feel for my parents... to feel this pain, this loss i've been reaching towards for months, now, without quite knowing what it was i was reaching towards... it feels, as i saw in that dream, that my father took my mother from me. i can feel him humiliating me, to fend me off. and i can see myself, now, carrying him around with me, shaming myself on his behalf. when i read your post i could see all of this even more clearly through your post; much of what you wrote felt so familiar, as though you were sharing with me my own experience... as though you are teaching me to myself.

 

and then, it all feels so unfamiliar. how amazing! especially this cut-off you experienced... being taken off to maine, this "far away planet." you take us through a whole big helping of your experience in this post. i hope you'll continue to share this unfolding. i'm still upset i lost what i had written to you, so i'm very distracted now. i want to re-read your post and then respond again, if i can. since i'm still trapped in my bubble, naturally my main focus is the sentence with that mysterious word "James" in it :P so i'll end there for now. thank you so much for sharing this! and wow! what a day you must have had.

As James pointed out, it may seem very outward, almost as if to ask, "but why do you look to them for this affirmation?" (I know this is not precisely what you were asking, James, since you didn't ask this, but you could have!)

ahhh!!! a but question!!! what a pain those are. i hope i am never guilty of asking anything like this :):):)

 

james, your dream

 It has been a long day and night and I am loving this pushing-up-against with you.  You and I and everyone here, in our own ways, we're all getting into stuff, bringing stuff up, there are layers and levels and feelings that guide... and dreams, god i love those dreams! And we need the relationship to help process and it's a funny one here on the blog with language, and time (god I love time) and lacunas, and language is one of those things that both transpires and conceals.  But I can feel your energy and intention and want to sit with you some more before I go to sleep (or watch the last episode of LOST, haven't decided yet).

it feels, as i saw in that dream, that my father took my mother from me. i can feel him humiliating me, to fend me off. and i can see myself, now, carrying him around with me, shaming myself on his behalf.

This is so potent!  I am intrigued by these words... "humiliating me, to fend me off"... and I'm wondering... to fend you (and your needs) off from the reckoning of not being able to face the responsibility he had towards you and your needs... and the guilt of not providing for you a loving home.  

 I can see how you can relate to my experience.  With my mom, I think she needed to block out those needs of mine that might lead back in some way to her decision to leave my father (it was hers) and feel guilt as a consequence.  She knew she was unhappy and in some way had to survive and not sacrifice herself to other considerations, like her child's needs... Only then could she actually provide for me to her best abilities.  I think she felt a lot of shame about how much her mother sacrificed and did not identify with her at all (consciously) and so had to follow her career beacon instead of a traditional mother/wife model which just wasn't in the cards for her.  She listened to her desire, to her spirit and I am grateful to her for this.  This doesn't take away the pain of loss... which is just part of my experience.  Her loss and pain is of another experience and she is another person I'd love to know better, and know I will in time...

Did you grow up with your mom or dad?  Or both?  

I also am very interested in your dream, the woman on the fold-out chair that you used to create cardboard castles (I am so touched by this detail... she feels like you.. like a version of you that was longing to create order and restore family?)... but your concern is centered on the man:

my concern is finding a way to this man, that he may perhaps be kept from destroying himself and all of his relationships... he's got quite a bit of power.

And you are dismantling his power through understanding.  But he's a destroyer!  Do you see any of your anger in this man?  

 

 

dreaming in my anger

Caterina: i love you. especially how dishevelled and annoyed you can sometimes get me, because i get to just tell you so. though that doesn't happen in this post. i just wrote a post pushing back up against your pushing. heh. "I learned a new way of loving today, pushing you. At first it was ignoring, but then you pushed me, and we were pushing inside each other's pushing."

 

i feel guilty, though, wanting you to stay up all night so that i can have you to myself, and just shove, then hold, then shove, then hold. i was thinking about Bob Dylan's album today, because i was thinking about shame, and when i think about shame it always brings me to: Desire. Sara, oh, Sara!

 

shit, you know, there's just so much in this post of yours; i'll just answer your two questions and leave it at that for now. i'm only going to be exploring this mother-father thing more and more. and i know you'll still be around.

 

"Did you grow up with your mom or dad?  Or both?"
 

i grew up with both, though i lived predominantly with my mother. often it was weekdays and weekends, respectively. he lived in bayside for a while (and my mother in whitestone!) until he eventually moved into whitestone himself. my sister despised the way i seemed to choose my mother over my father. she had seen him sick (he is bipolar-- oh boy, more on this soon. current crisis. sadness, fear, struggle. will return) and was pretty traumatized by it, actually. they tried to "protect" me from it by keeping me ignorant. well, i appreciate the effort. i was always pretty resistant to this idea that i was choosing one over the other. i was like, "i'm hardly ever in the house; i just come here to do homework and sleep" etc, etc, etc. i'm starting to rethink those old defenses :P

 

"Do you see any of your anger in this man?"

 

i first just want to clarify: the man is the one on the little chair. i hardly (if at all) saw the woman (Catherine, his wife (and you; and my mom, though her name is Debra)) at all in the dream, and only earlier outside my bedroom/office. she was sort of missing; i couldn't even feel her a little bit THROUGH him; know what i mean? she was just... absent. he totally got in the way. at one point i mentioned grasping and he said, "Catherine is a grasping?" and this meant: "My feelings for Catherine are nothing more than mere attachment... this means that I do not have any responsibility to our relationship because she is nothing more for me than me grasping." this was him taking my words and distorting them, and using me to make his decision (like ALEX does in In Treatment... damn!) but do i see any of my anger in him... ack! what a question. i'm not sure exactly why my legs are jittery, but perhaps the YES to this queston is part of it. but, wow, i need to sit with this question more right now. and that's what i'm going to do, because i have not explored this any further than being angry with my father, and being angry with this man in the same way, and getting in touch with those feelings for my father through my experience with this man. but even this i must return to. so i want to find my own anger in this destroyer. ahhh, mon amie, merci beaucoup.

coffee or tea?

 Tomorrow I can make us some toast with raspberry jam that a student of mine made from her farm in western mass.. and I have coffee (but italian style... I know you'd probably like it the way I make it) or I also have teas of many sorts...

some black, some green, and some ginger, mint, or throat coat.

This was amazing, James.  Thank you.  You are amazing.

Sweet dreams.

 

grasping

she was just... absent. he totally got in the way. at one point i mentioned grasping and he said, "Catherine is a grasping?" and this meant: "My feelings for Catherine are nothing more than mere attachment... this means that I do not have any responsibility to our relationship because she is nothing more for me than me grasping." this was him taking my words and distorting them, and using me to make his decision 

 

ah, this is beautiful...  between the buddhist and the nihilist.

 

 

 

grasped

now lookie here... notice that i when i wrote that his wife's name was Catherine i put "and you" in the parenthetical. it might just be thrice removed longing for the mother i lost when she was pushed away from me by my father, and dragged further away by alcohol; but if my experience of the woman in this dream, and the longing associated, goes: Catherine (wife) -> Caterina (you) -> Debra (mom)... well, here's why i've been nervous. here's why i've been defending the literal. and so on. hello transference of mine. i actually have a much more poetic way of thinking about it. hello dream of mine. last saturday was a dream, and i was simultaneously six people sitting at one table. i woke up the next day and got a bit confused because i started taking them all literally. then i shifted focus and started to see things a bit differently. where i once had thought of outside forces working on me, now i recognized it as a dream and began to see these "outside" forces as restraints and conflicts pulled at me from within. but then i got nervous because the literal was slipping, and i realized, "it also really happened," and i feared, "does that literal just not exist?" but this clearly did not feel right, so i fought back for the literal, then got lost again in the flood. tangled up in blue. knee-deep in the hooplah (damn straight). does this sound as exhausting to all of you as it does to me? heh. and on top of all that inner What?, my father has falled back into a depression, and i came to see him today; and while my interaction with him was very beautiful, and i trusted myself so powerfully, and felt him so clearly, and could feel him beginning to feel safe (even though he had been quite freaked at the prospect of me coming, and was quite upset when he saw me), and, in fact, feeling safe enough to choose on his own to eat a bit, and so on... well, but then... everyone else came home, and suddenly the impossibility of the situation dawned on me. especially because of my two little brothers, who are 6 and 4. like last saturday-- when i first showed up and could see Om's and Noah's heads (the others were all unfamiliar as yet!) i felt calm and warm and welcomed. i knew i was entering into a safe, intimate space. and so i was. yet, there is a kind of intimacy i particularly struggle with in groups (and this is the case even when my thinking isn't centered mostly on one person, sitting far enough that i can't hear her!)-- even when i'm in such a sweet space as we inhabited that night, i feel somehow limited... that i can't quite open up as fully as i can when i'm with just one other person, or perhaps two. this is largely the shame... i don't know, maybe it's entirely the shame. it's tough. it's tough because i'm only beginning to open up to it. it's very scary. maybe this will begin to clear up some of that which i've been sharing lately? there's always a lot going on that doesn't get onto the blog-- and much of it will never be able to make it onto the blog. and the stuff that does, well, it's all practice anyway :)

 

between the buddhist and the nihilist. we're not quite having a tibetan-style debate, so i can't make a joke of that. hmm... we're having quite a back-n-forth, though. and wow-- it's late. so. i'll have to go to bed and dream in my anger, and my transferring, and my nervousness... and i'll have to dream up some more courage, though i'm doing well enough. and as for any of the stuff i've written that is at the very least tinged with fear, or defensiveness, or nervousness, or shame-- well, i take back none of it! aha! i may have spoken in blindness-- and so shall i continue. the remedy is understanding, and for that i need some practice. so, miss C ::bows:: thank you. i'll take the italian style coffee; though i'm afraid i'll be in whitestone long after breakfast, and then i'll be sitting sadly on my couch trying to do some of the homework i've missed; and moping that i didn't go to the studio room today. i'll do the ol' mope-a-dope. heh. no, i won't get away with that, because i'll come back to the blog to all the bewilderment you and i will have caused with our lengthy grilling :):):) okay--- time to go to bed now, james. it's four in the morning. i'm nervous that i won't go to sleep, and that i'll stay up reading great expectations. i kept thinking of chinua achebe today, and occassionally i'd say, "things fall apart." first noble truth, and all.

 

good morning, everyone.

HEY NICO

Let's hear a (full, robust) report on your day.

Hey Man,

get out of my head.

 

it is freaky how you asked what i was posting at the same time.

 

don't u agree, Om?

 

And thanks for getting so excited about the Stern quote.  i knew you would enjoy it.

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